What's up with all the pearl clutching in this comment section? This guy is not uniquely insane by BARpod standards; just take a look at the late James Shupe, who was similarly unhinged, dishonest, and flip-flopped constantly on politics. At least Johnson never sent Hanania a video of himself in a diaper jiggling his moobs around.
I'd have to go back and listen to the Shupe episode. Don't recall.
Not sure about pearl clutching. Just not my cup of tea really.
Most BarPod stuff is about extreme, wild, even unhinged personalities and groups. But not just flat out _crazy_.
Like take a cult. I mean. They're a cult. By definition they believe some really whackadoodle things. Sometimes they drink the kool-aid and mass suicde themselves. Which is certainly colloquially "crazy".
But what's so fascinating is they're not ACTUALLY crazy. They're people capable of being normal, but have gone down some wild path for some reason. At least that's why it's interesting to me. . . . e.g. "what is it that leads otherwise normal people down these paths and the wild things they'll do once they go that way?"
I don't personally find the shenanigans of outright mental illness as interesting because anything they do is just the crazy stuff people do when mentally ill. Like otherwise normal person who believes lizard people rule the Democratic Party.....interesting. Schizophrenic that believes their Jesus and Republicans re jews trying to crucify him. . . not so interesting. They're just schizophrenic.
Yeah...I agree with this. I have a relative with schizophrenia and I wouldn't want people making fun of him for something he didn't choose and doesn't want.
But you’d end up by being able to justify their turn to crazy in terms of mental illnesses and disorders - extreme narcissistic disorder, paranoia, depression, Stockholm syndrome.. if there is abnormal behaviour there is a mental disorder somewhere to justify it.
Some disorders cause impairments that put people in delusional states, critically impair their reasoning functions, or a lack of impulse control.
Others do not.
You also flipped from excuse to justify. And imply it means there should be no consequences (in other posts). But because they are not responsible, does not mean the actions are justified. Nor does it mean they are without consequence.
A schizophrenic who stabs people thinking they're lizard body snatchers may not be responsible for their actions. But we don't just let them wonder around stabbing people. And we definitely don't say the stabbings are justified (that their actions were right and appropriate, that they're reasonable given the context).
Pedantic tosh - the use of justify in my sentence is like ‘pass’ in yours in relation to Kayne. You want to give a wide ‘pass’ to people’s actions based on armchair diagnosis of their mental conditions. If I’m slandered, libelled or done damage to I don’t care if their ‘having a wee turn’ the damages are rightfully mine. Damages aren’t there to be a lotto win, they are quantified to repair my position affected by the actions of the opposite party.
People,don’t get a pass on public behaviour because it’s possible they have mental health issues. The story - from his heights of influence to his lawsuit damages - is insanely interesting and full of comedy moments. This is life, being po-faced about it aids no-one.
Hanania’s nervous laugh delivery is bloody grating tho.
It was interesting, but more in a bad car crash kind of way than a "wow, some of these subcultures are wild" kind of way. Like a fall from heights of influence into insanity.
I do find the comment interesting that people don't get a pass on public behavior due to mental illness.....
Isn't that EXACTLY what they get? I mean, it's literally one of the only legal ways to get a pass for otherwise criminal, violent, or egregious public behavior.
I mean, I 100% give Ye a pass on all crazy crap that comes out of his mouth when off his meds. Why wouldn't you?
Because if you cause me harm I don’t care that it’s because you’re in your feels.
Your stance reminds me of the old Alexi Sayle joke about getting away with anything if your doing it for charity: if Hitler had invaded Poland for SpinaBifida it would have been fine.
That's kind of the point, right? Someone who thinks they're literally Jesus and Trump and Putin are leading a cabal of secret lizard people to prevent their second coming and harken a new era where dogs rule over man. And they know this because their cat is part of the resistance and assures them the medication is part of the plot....
It's a little ridiculous to give them a set of instructions and say "Ok, this is your responsibility. You got that? Ok."
It's why compulsory treatment should be a thing.
BP II and Schizophrenia are conditions that by definition impair reality testing, judgement and insight, impulse control and directly affect their ability to make rational decisions.
It would be difficult for someone to make a rational case for moral or legal responsibility for actions taken during these states. It's why we commit violent schizophrenics rather than execute or imprison them.
I'm not even sure how your analogy relates to the topic at hand even loosely.
I dunno Alphonse, I haven't listened to the episode yet but schizophrenia is not really a "mental health problem" so much as raving, batshit craziness where you think the CIA are talking to you through your teeth. I sort of doubt a person with schizophrenia would be together enough to make it into blocked and reported but you never know, it has degrees.
Most people do not give Kanye "a pass," and justifiably so, because the vast majority of bipolar people do not become Neonazis when they go off their medications. He's not an asshole because he's bipolar, he's an asshole who also happens to be bipolar. Subtract the mental disorders from Kanye, and what you end up with is a Drake or a Diddy.
Someone in my immediate family has bipolar disorder, and it really is difficult to manage; the medications have obnoxious side effects, and the mania often causes people to think that they're superhuman while they're experiencing it, when from an outside perspective, they just seem like they're acting nuts. All cluster B disorders are resistant to treatment, because the condition itself often puts these individuals in a state of denial, causing them to refuse or discontinue treatment. This doesn't mean they're incapable of distinguishing between right and wrong, however.
The effects of these diseases when in a schizophrenic episode or a manic psychosis clinically do impair their ability to tell right from wrong and reality from delusional thought. As well as impulse control that might, otherwise, prevent crazy stuff come coming out of their mouths or actions they know is wrong.
deBoer talks about this. About truly believing his wife was trying to poison him. I think he said he had real thoughts of harming her to protect himself. It wouldn't be wrong because, you know, she was poisoning him...right?
It can affect different people differently. Some, like my relative, would run down the street naked and have sex with random people at bars. Even thought they were married and had kids.
Some think a global cabal of Jews are out to get them.
Neither reflect who they are, what they believe, or the choices they'd make when not psychotic.
I don't know Ye. Or how he is in private when he's on his meds and in a baseline "normal" state. I can clearly see he has a mental illness though. And he seems to say and do things that are uncharacteristic during the periods when he acts more rational.
I've never seen Kanye actually showing really serious symptoms. Just being an asshole. Maybe he has them, I'm just saying I haven't seen it. He hasn't got naked on live TV for example, or started screaming at people. He just does attention seeking narcissistic bullshit that he's 100% in control of.
Yeah. That Joe Rogan interview was pretty whack. It clearly comes and goes too. Like periods of relative calm then everyone can tell "oh yeah, ye is off the meds again".
About half way through and came here to see the same. Very giggly. Not a criticism, just an observation. Wasn't expecting it and it was a bit distracting.
You are nicer than me, because it's definitely a criticism from me 😄 Honestly couldn't concentrate on the story in anticipation of the next giggly outbreak (didn't have to wait long each time!).
That's like 40% of their shows, though. Many such cases of nutbars. The subjects normally don't have any kind of connection to a presidential administration, however. (that was the least surprising thing outside of Johnson representing himself in court)
Mental illness is an explanation, not an excuse. Advocate for the restoration of institutionalization the psychoactive or let us enjoy the beautiful tapestry unfettered mental illness weaves.
Yeah, reminds me of the episode they devoted to that guy with the self published book about pretending to be black. It was obvious that he was just a seriously mentally ill person but neither of the hosts seemed to pick up on that.
I have nothing against Hanania, but listening to this episode really made me sad, because this guy is very clearly mentally ill. I know that's nothing new for B&R subjects, but something about Hanania's giggling and saying he loves Chuck just struck me as a kind of bullying. I know this guy has wasted taxpayer money and been a PIA to a lot of people by suing them, but I felt pity for him listening to this, since he clearly suffers from the kind of delusions that a lot of mentally ill people do - assuming they are the target of international governments, etc - and if we found a guy on the street who believed these things (which isn't hard to do) there would be something cruel about talking a lot about how ridiculous his beliefs are. I dunno, I just got sad listening to this.
I think what makes a difference for me is that Jesse and Katie had never heard of this guy, and neither had I, so it was kind of like "hey have you heard of this dude who has a Substack and claims to have all these connections to famous people?" and then you slowly realize that he is very likely a pariah in his own community and all his supposed influence is in his own imagination.
Same. Wasn't a fan of Hanania & was bored to death halfway through. Don't feel bad being this blunt because from what I gather, Hanania is not that great of a guy? Blech.
It really wasn't. Hanania might be a smart guy, I have no idea, but he's not a journalist and certainly not a storyteller. This sucked. You know how Jesse and Katie are always going "we'll come back to that" in response to questions from whoever is in the blind seat? That's a sign that they have a story they want to tell, in a particular order, without too many tangents. Hanania does not do that. His story, as it were, had no throughline and he could not manage to keep the characters separate in a way that was trackable by the audience.
Katie or Jesse might turn in a clunker sometimes, but they are very good at this format. Hanania is not.
Gotta say, at what point does the court order a psych eval to see if someone is competent to stand trial or needs to be institutionalized if a person refusing council and accusing the court of some Mormon-Musk conspiracy against him isn’t enough? This seems like schizophrenia - Beautiful Mind stuff like Katie said. Or would those sort of court orders only apply to criminal not civil cases?
Same. When Richard said the first judge was being "maternal" toward him I wanted to say "yeah, and isn't it normal?". It should be obvious that guy is not playing with the same deck as everyone else. It's the second judge that seems deeply wrong to me. You spend a trial making fun of the guy for being a nutjob and then you impose the harshest penalties in US history for that kind of lawsuit? Isn't ground for appeal, a whole court laughing at the defender for being deluded?
That article about Johnson supposedly helping pick Trump’s first term cabinet and Jesse being wistful for them in comparison reminded me of those days when the left thought it was an eleven alarm fascism fire that Trump put completely normal Republicans on his cabinet. Along with many other things presidents normally do or Obama did (photos of “kids in cages” from Obama’s term being attributed to Trump comes to mind) and regular Republican policies suddenly being spun as the unprecedented totalitarian destruction of democracy unique to Trump.
Happened again with things like Project 2025, as if Republicans hadn’t wanted to cut government, get rid of the Edu Dept, promote family values, etc for 50+ years.
Or maybe I’m just one of few who don’t have the memory of a goldfish and didn’t only start to paying attention to politics when Trump was elected so I had the institutional knowledge plus study of political history to put things in perspective and know the importance of picking out the true threats and abnormalities of Trump instead of saying it’s all 1000% unprecedented fascism (said of every GOP nominee for 50+ years) that makes people tune out and not believe any of what you say and helped lead to Trump in the first place.
And actually they flipped their shit way more during Trump 1 and now that Trump 2 is happening it really feels like they’ve lost steam when he is doing arguably way more controversial shit.
Thinking about it now it feels like quite the boy who cried wolf situation maybe.
It is 1000% boy who cried wolf with Romney being a huge breaking point. After this pleasant milquetoast moderate Mormon man was smeared as a sexist, racist, cancer-causing, animal-abusing bully who wants to push grandma over a cliff, nobody believed or cared what was said about Trump.
Not some myth being cooked up 10+ years later, started right from 2012. There were literally articles written circa 2016 from liberals apologizing for how they treated Romney.
Like I said, the left has been screaming Republican candidates were fascists who would dismantle democracy for 50+ years. The difference in 2012 was how mild Romney was in comparison to the attacks. He was no fire brand or activist, in fact he had to try to convince Republicans he was conservative enough to represent them. The feeling was, fine, we need someone non-controversial and moderate to get a fair shake. You complain about tiny Fox/right wing radio- That’s funny- try going up against everyone else in media, academia, culture, etc. that’s left-wing.
Anyway, my whole point is, the left cried wolf about fascism/racism/every ism for 50+ years to the point it fell on deaf ears and then came Trump. They should have held their powder for the real threat when it came.
But they still haven’t learned. When everything an 11 alarm fire, nothing is 11 alarm and people tune out the alarms.
Oh I remember it. I remember a hack like Victor Davis Hanson making a big deal of it.
I don’t think progressive media is good or true. That is a strawman too. I think it is mostly nonsense.
However decades of talk radio and stuff like the Clinton death list and I recall Glenn Beck literally running footage of Nuremberg rally and then cutting to Obama talking about heath care seem like important context when talking about the 2012 race.
What I am saying is the normal campaign crap that Romney faced was not some huge crime considering context.
Now I do think the tragedy is about Romney is the whole etch a sketch thing. I think he was a moderate type. But to get the nomination he had to play the role of an Ayn Randist.
It would have been great if he could have been the guy who came up with Romneycare. But the GOP primary voters would not allow it.
So when he said the 47 percent thing I don’t know if he believed it. I think he may have been playing a role to his donors. But you expect his political opponents to give that to him? I mean didn’t the GOP make a big deal out of “You didn’t build that” by changing the meaning of what Obama said to mean small business itself.
I mean this is the nature of politics. Is poliitics stupid and dishonest? Yes. But I see this Romney thing now as a “Get Out of Jail Free” card.
I wasn’t talking about the 47% thing, that was totally fair game. I was talking about everything I mentioned in my first post - “sexist, racist, cancer-causing, animal-abusing bully who wants to push grandma over a cliff,” those were all literal examples. The ads about the woman who got cancer because of him and Ryan pushing grandma off a cliff because of SS and Medicare,
that he abused animals because their dog rode on the roof of their car, that he was a bully supposedly cutting some kids hair, that “binders full of women” was supposed to be evidence of sexism.
It’s amusing when you bring up something like the Clinton kill list or Glenn Beck, and people just conveniently ignore it to continue with the “poor little Romney” talking point.
Yeah, talk radio and Fox are tiny compared ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC, 99% of other news and entertainment outlets, plus all other academia, art, culture, etc.
Romney ran in 2012 as a cold-hearted asshole. The Romney we know from his later time in the senate bears no resemblance to that guy. You're absolutely right.
This neglects the point that Romney without power is a much more affable intelligent guy - and this likeable - than Romney In Office with a republican party led by Newt Gingrich.
I didn't pay attention to every second, but I really struggled to overall, which hasn't happened in a while! TBH I'm still not entirely sure what it was about. I was also really excited by this character thinking he was some rootin tootin red haired big bearded personality and not someone who looks like they keep multiple cans of spray cheese in their fridge at all times.
I’m glad I’m not just dense - or at least I wasn’t the only one who found this hard to follow. Leaving aside the ethics of this guy maybe being certifiable, I had the sense that he was doing outlandish things but was having trouble tracking exactly in what way they were outlandish or why he was important
Someone with a weirdly incredible amount of reach considering the lack of intellect I hear in everything I’ve heard from him.
To be fair it was kind of an interesting story, but really poorly told. I felt like Katie and Jessie were working hard to try to constantly breathe life into it while he continues to punch down on someone who is truly mentally ill.
Well, he writes stuff like this, as of Feb, 2022: "As long as men and women are treated differently by society, they cannot engage in public debate with each other in a fair and consistent way.... I have no doubt that public discourse as a male space works better. That doesn’t mean women are barred from voting or discussing politics..." https://www.richardhanania.com/p/womens-tears-win-in-the-marketplace
Within the last couple of years he wrote in a tweet about a Black homeless person (who was killed in self-defense (justifiably) by a subway rider when he was acting threateningly) "These people are animals, whether they’re harassing people in subways or walking around in suits."
He is currently (as we see the Epstein debacle creating a sharp turn in nationwide opinions about Trump) backtracking on his vote for and many opinions about Trump (see here: https://www.richardhanania.com/p/what-i-got-wrong-about-trump), even though he was one of Trump's advisors.
He does not seem to have a great track record for putting forth opinions or ideas that should be taken seriously. (No shade on our show hosts for having him (interesting episode) and looking forward to the primo episode!)
it's just one of those "criticizing a movement from within" things that ramp up people's rage-bait engagement since it appeals to "both sides" to get into arguments with him which in turn raises his profile.
Interesting. I should delve deeper into this individual. It kinda seems like he’s just an edgy heterodox right leaning guy though. Probably got into some weird spaces in his earlier years, but who didn’t? Of these examples the only real red flag to me is the eugenics thing, but even that is a somewhat mainstream discussion. I’m pretty sure a lot of European countries kill all the downies so eugenics is still alive in a sense.
fwiw, i think his book 'the origins of woke' was great & really very useful. most people who listen to b&r or fifth column style shows would find it worth their time, i think.
I don't speak for the "we" but I liked him on this episode fine, but his tweeting pisses me off. He seems to switch his politics on what will annoy the most people. He was voting for trump in nov and then later gets some sort of praise (by Katie even) that he is now against trump and dunking on trumpers when... he should not get praise, he should be made fun of for not dunking on trumpers pre election. It isn't like he is 19 years old and is just learning about politics. And he acts like he is always on the moral high ground when he is on either side of these arguments.
I am not against people for voting for trump. I didn't vote for him (or her, I wrote in Glenn Youngkin) and even gun to my head, I probably wanted him over her. But he acted morally superior for picking trump and now acts morally superior for being against trump. It's not consistent
First BARPod episode where I actually started to doze off.
I don’t know if it’s the subject (never heard of him before) or Hanania’s annoying voice, but I just couldn’t bring myself to care at all about this one.
I'm just past the housekeeping segment and I might bail on this one. I've lost track of what's going on and I don't really care enough to figure it out.
Same omg 😭 I kept skipping back to re-listen when my thoughts trailed off but it was happening so often that about half-way through I decided to give up and come to the comments and see if it was just me.
I don't even know if it was a good story or not (seemed hard to follow), because Hanania's constant guffawing and nervous chuckling was so distracting.
Katie’s “Schrodinger’s scat” joke was SO quick and good, it deserved a standing ovation and was somehow totally glossed over. Incredible joke.
Came here to say I couldn’t believe they just rolled on by that!
I had the same thought! Totally brilliant. But Jesse stepped all over it by mishearing it as "Schrodinger's shat" , which he then repeated.
Jesse stepping on a punchline? never
"Schrodinger scat” even has exactly the same letters in the same order.
Looking forward to more razor sharp physics banter in future episodes.
I said "Schrödinger's Crap" right over it!
Yup, came here to say that. Fantastic joke.
100%
Ok, guys. Explain to me why Occam’s Razor doesn’t apply here and you didn’t just dedicate an hour and a half to some poor guy with schizophrenia?
What's up with all the pearl clutching in this comment section? This guy is not uniquely insane by BARpod standards; just take a look at the late James Shupe, who was similarly unhinged, dishonest, and flip-flopped constantly on politics. At least Johnson never sent Hanania a video of himself in a diaper jiggling his moobs around.
I'd have to go back and listen to the Shupe episode. Don't recall.
Not sure about pearl clutching. Just not my cup of tea really.
Most BarPod stuff is about extreme, wild, even unhinged personalities and groups. But not just flat out _crazy_.
Like take a cult. I mean. They're a cult. By definition they believe some really whackadoodle things. Sometimes they drink the kool-aid and mass suicde themselves. Which is certainly colloquially "crazy".
But what's so fascinating is they're not ACTUALLY crazy. They're people capable of being normal, but have gone down some wild path for some reason. At least that's why it's interesting to me. . . . e.g. "what is it that leads otherwise normal people down these paths and the wild things they'll do once they go that way?"
I don't personally find the shenanigans of outright mental illness as interesting because anything they do is just the crazy stuff people do when mentally ill. Like otherwise normal person who believes lizard people rule the Democratic Party.....interesting. Schizophrenic that believes their Jesus and Republicans re jews trying to crucify him. . . not so interesting. They're just schizophrenic.
Yeah...I agree with this. I have a relative with schizophrenia and I wouldn't want people making fun of him for something he didn't choose and doesn't want.
But you’d end up by being able to justify their turn to crazy in terms of mental illnesses and disorders - extreme narcissistic disorder, paranoia, depression, Stockholm syndrome.. if there is abnormal behaviour there is a mental disorder somewhere to justify it.
Some disorders cause impairments that put people in delusional states, critically impair their reasoning functions, or a lack of impulse control.
Others do not.
You also flipped from excuse to justify. And imply it means there should be no consequences (in other posts). But because they are not responsible, does not mean the actions are justified. Nor does it mean they are without consequence.
A schizophrenic who stabs people thinking they're lizard body snatchers may not be responsible for their actions. But we don't just let them wonder around stabbing people. And we definitely don't say the stabbings are justified (that their actions were right and appropriate, that they're reasonable given the context).
Pedantic tosh - the use of justify in my sentence is like ‘pass’ in yours in relation to Kayne. You want to give a wide ‘pass’ to people’s actions based on armchair diagnosis of their mental conditions. If I’m slandered, libelled or done damage to I don’t care if their ‘having a wee turn’ the damages are rightfully mine. Damages aren’t there to be a lotto win, they are quantified to repair my position affected by the actions of the opposite party.
I don’t give Kayne a pass
I don’t give Elon a pass
I don’t guve this guy a pass.
Who is Kayne
Schizophrenia, like gender, is a spectrum.
People,don’t get a pass on public behaviour because it’s possible they have mental health issues. The story - from his heights of influence to his lawsuit damages - is insanely interesting and full of comedy moments. This is life, being po-faced about it aids no-one.
Hanania’s nervous laugh delivery is bloody grating tho.
It was interesting, but more in a bad car crash kind of way than a "wow, some of these subcultures are wild" kind of way. Like a fall from heights of influence into insanity.
I do find the comment interesting that people don't get a pass on public behavior due to mental illness.....
Isn't that EXACTLY what they get? I mean, it's literally one of the only legal ways to get a pass for otherwise criminal, violent, or egregious public behavior.
I mean, I 100% give Ye a pass on all crazy crap that comes out of his mouth when off his meds. Why wouldn't you?
Because he has responsibility to be on his meds?
Because responsibility for actions is important.
Because if you cause me harm I don’t care that it’s because you’re in your feels.
Your stance reminds me of the old Alexi Sayle joke about getting away with anything if your doing it for charity: if Hitler had invaded Poland for SpinaBifida it would have been fine.
That's kind of the point, right? Someone who thinks they're literally Jesus and Trump and Putin are leading a cabal of secret lizard people to prevent their second coming and harken a new era where dogs rule over man. And they know this because their cat is part of the resistance and assures them the medication is part of the plot....
It's a little ridiculous to give them a set of instructions and say "Ok, this is your responsibility. You got that? Ok."
It's why compulsory treatment should be a thing.
BP II and Schizophrenia are conditions that by definition impair reality testing, judgement and insight, impulse control and directly affect their ability to make rational decisions.
It would be difficult for someone to make a rational case for moral or legal responsibility for actions taken during these states. It's why we commit violent schizophrenics rather than execute or imprison them.
I'm not even sure how your analogy relates to the topic at hand even loosely.
Half the internet thinks they're the second coming and chem trails are real. They're still legally and morally responsible for their actions.
I dunno Alphonse, I haven't listened to the episode yet but schizophrenia is not really a "mental health problem" so much as raving, batshit craziness where you think the CIA are talking to you through your teeth. I sort of doubt a person with schizophrenia would be together enough to make it into blocked and reported but you never know, it has degrees.
He's sane enough to have made a fortune, written books, continue to write coherently
He's just a Walter Mitty. That's not grounds for absolving him of legal liability.
Sounds like a good episode
Most people do not give Kanye "a pass," and justifiably so, because the vast majority of bipolar people do not become Neonazis when they go off their medications. He's not an asshole because he's bipolar, he's an asshole who also happens to be bipolar. Subtract the mental disorders from Kanye, and what you end up with is a Drake or a Diddy.
Someone in my immediate family has bipolar disorder, and it really is difficult to manage; the medications have obnoxious side effects, and the mania often causes people to think that they're superhuman while they're experiencing it, when from an outside perspective, they just seem like they're acting nuts. All cluster B disorders are resistant to treatment, because the condition itself often puts these individuals in a state of denial, causing them to refuse or discontinue treatment. This doesn't mean they're incapable of distinguishing between right and wrong, however.
The effects of these diseases when in a schizophrenic episode or a manic psychosis clinically do impair their ability to tell right from wrong and reality from delusional thought. As well as impulse control that might, otherwise, prevent crazy stuff come coming out of their mouths or actions they know is wrong.
deBoer talks about this. About truly believing his wife was trying to poison him. I think he said he had real thoughts of harming her to protect himself. It wouldn't be wrong because, you know, she was poisoning him...right?
It can affect different people differently. Some, like my relative, would run down the street naked and have sex with random people at bars. Even thought they were married and had kids.
Some think a global cabal of Jews are out to get them.
Neither reflect who they are, what they believe, or the choices they'd make when not psychotic.
I don't know Ye. Or how he is in private when he's on his meds and in a baseline "normal" state. I can clearly see he has a mental illness though. And he seems to say and do things that are uncharacteristic during the periods when he acts more rational.
I've never seen Kanye actually showing really serious symptoms. Just being an asshole. Maybe he has them, I'm just saying I haven't seen it. He hasn't got naked on live TV for example, or started screaming at people. He just does attention seeking narcissistic bullshit that he's 100% in control of.
Yeah. That Joe Rogan interview was pretty whack. It clearly comes and goes too. Like periods of relative calm then everyone can tell "oh yeah, ye is off the meds again".
I came to the comments specifically to see if anyone else mentioned the nervous laugh delivery. So annoying!
About half way through and came here to see the same. Very giggly. Not a criticism, just an observation. Wasn't expecting it and it was a bit distracting.
You are nicer than me, because it's definitely a criticism from me 😄 Honestly couldn't concentrate on the story in anticipation of the next giggly outbreak (didn't have to wait long each time!).
As Helen Lewis would say of the last sentence, "harsh but fair."
It was so very irritating!
To me the guy seemed too concertedly devoted to self promotion for a schizophrenic, but I did consider manic/bipolar.
IMHO, his actions are much too public and detrimental to others to merit him compassionate privacy.
Yeah. Maybe manic. I’m not a psychologist, but I know crazy when I see it.
This isn’t just some quirky right winger with odd ideas or an all in wokester setting up a communist coffee collective.
It just seemed like legitimate mental illness. Was kind of sad imo. . .
That's like 40% of their shows, though. Many such cases of nutbars. The subjects normally don't have any kind of connection to a presidential administration, however. (that was the least surprising thing outside of Johnson representing himself in court)
Clearly something going on. Still a fascinating case. The interrogation with himself was one of the best BarPod moments of all time.
Mental illness is an explanation, not an excuse. Advocate for the restoration of institutionalization the psychoactive or let us enjoy the beautiful tapestry unfettered mental illness weaves.
Yeah, reminds me of the episode they devoted to that guy with the self published book about pretending to be black. It was obvious that he was just a seriously mentally ill person but neither of the hosts seemed to pick up on that.
Not everyone who behaves idiotically is necessarily mentally ill, but the same thought crossed my mind
I have nothing against Hanania, but listening to this episode really made me sad, because this guy is very clearly mentally ill. I know that's nothing new for B&R subjects, but something about Hanania's giggling and saying he loves Chuck just struck me as a kind of bullying. I know this guy has wasted taxpayer money and been a PIA to a lot of people by suing them, but I felt pity for him listening to this, since he clearly suffers from the kind of delusions that a lot of mentally ill people do - assuming they are the target of international governments, etc - and if we found a guy on the street who believed these things (which isn't hard to do) there would be something cruel about talking a lot about how ridiculous his beliefs are. I dunno, I just got sad listening to this.
Had the same thought. It was kind of a fascinating story - and a good barpod story, but was just punching down the whole time.
I don’t enjoy hannania and am confused why anyone finds him interesting (or why he has an audience at all) and this further demonstrated that.
Felt like they were pulling a lot of water for him.
I think what makes a difference for me is that Jesse and Katie had never heard of this guy, and neither had I, so it was kind of like "hey have you heard of this dude who has a Substack and claims to have all these connections to famous people?" and then you slowly realize that he is very likely a pariah in his own community and all his supposed influence is in his own imagination.
Vintage BARPod. Great episode.
Oof, not going to unsub or anything, but this might be the first BARPod I skip.
Same. Wasn't a fan of Hanania & was bored to death halfway through. Don't feel bad being this blunt because from what I gather, Hanania is not that great of a guy? Blech.
Thank you. Maybe his shitty tweets are part of a schtick that's gone over my head, but I don't think so. I think he's just a shitty person.
It was a solid episode.
It really wasn't. Hanania might be a smart guy, I have no idea, but he's not a journalist and certainly not a storyteller. This sucked. You know how Jesse and Katie are always going "we'll come back to that" in response to questions from whoever is in the blind seat? That's a sign that they have a story they want to tell, in a particular order, without too many tangents. Hanania does not do that. His story, as it were, had no throughline and he could not manage to keep the characters separate in a way that was trackable by the audience.
Katie or Jesse might turn in a clunker sometimes, but they are very good at this format. Hanania is not.
Gotta say, at what point does the court order a psych eval to see if someone is competent to stand trial or needs to be institutionalized if a person refusing council and accusing the court of some Mormon-Musk conspiracy against him isn’t enough? This seems like schizophrenia - Beautiful Mind stuff like Katie said. Or would those sort of court orders only apply to criminal not civil cases?
Same. When Richard said the first judge was being "maternal" toward him I wanted to say "yeah, and isn't it normal?". It should be obvious that guy is not playing with the same deck as everyone else. It's the second judge that seems deeply wrong to me. You spend a trial making fun of the guy for being a nutjob and then you impose the harshest penalties in US history for that kind of lawsuit? Isn't ground for appeal, a whole court laughing at the defender for being deluded?
I wondered about this, too. I'm not a lawyer, but is an insanity defense even possible in civil cases?
I am so sorry but this man has a voice for silent film.
I could not get through this.
I'd rather listen to "In Cold Blood" as read by Truman Capote.
It took about half the episode, but eventually my brain kind of smoothed the voice out in my head so it isn't as bad.
Love your last sentence!
That article about Johnson supposedly helping pick Trump’s first term cabinet and Jesse being wistful for them in comparison reminded me of those days when the left thought it was an eleven alarm fascism fire that Trump put completely normal Republicans on his cabinet. Along with many other things presidents normally do or Obama did (photos of “kids in cages” from Obama’s term being attributed to Trump comes to mind) and regular Republican policies suddenly being spun as the unprecedented totalitarian destruction of democracy unique to Trump.
Happened again with things like Project 2025, as if Republicans hadn’t wanted to cut government, get rid of the Edu Dept, promote family values, etc for 50+ years.
Or maybe I’m just one of few who don’t have the memory of a goldfish and didn’t only start to paying attention to politics when Trump was elected so I had the institutional knowledge plus study of political history to put things in perspective and know the importance of picking out the true threats and abnormalities of Trump instead of saying it’s all 1000% unprecedented fascism (said of every GOP nominee for 50+ years) that makes people tune out and not believe any of what you say and helped lead to Trump in the first place.
That is kind of funny.
And actually they flipped their shit way more during Trump 1 and now that Trump 2 is happening it really feels like they’ve lost steam when he is doing arguably way more controversial shit.
Thinking about it now it feels like quite the boy who cried wolf situation maybe.
It is 1000% boy who cried wolf with Romney being a huge breaking point. After this pleasant milquetoast moderate Mormon man was smeared as a sexist, racist, cancer-causing, animal-abusing bully who wants to push grandma over a cliff, nobody believed or cared what was said about Trump.
Alright. But the GOP reaction to Obama pre this or even Clinton was very measured, right?
I mean birtherism, death panels, etc.
2009-2010 FOX/talk radio was a special kind of unhinged thing.
The fact they were mean to Romney seems almost quaint.
This formulation that 2012 was especially brutal election is just not true historically.
It is a growing “myth of innocence” meme that keeps popping up in conservative circles.
Not some myth being cooked up 10+ years later, started right from 2012. There were literally articles written circa 2016 from liberals apologizing for how they treated Romney.
Like I said, the left has been screaming Republican candidates were fascists who would dismantle democracy for 50+ years. The difference in 2012 was how mild Romney was in comparison to the attacks. He was no fire brand or activist, in fact he had to try to convince Republicans he was conservative enough to represent them. The feeling was, fine, we need someone non-controversial and moderate to get a fair shake. You complain about tiny Fox/right wing radio- That’s funny- try going up against everyone else in media, academia, culture, etc. that’s left-wing.
Anyway, my whole point is, the left cried wolf about fascism/racism/every ism for 50+ years to the point it fell on deaf ears and then came Trump. They should have held their powder for the real threat when it came.
But they still haven’t learned. When everything an 11 alarm fire, nothing is 11 alarm and people tune out the alarms.
Oh I remember it. I remember a hack like Victor Davis Hanson making a big deal of it.
I don’t think progressive media is good or true. That is a strawman too. I think it is mostly nonsense.
However decades of talk radio and stuff like the Clinton death list and I recall Glenn Beck literally running footage of Nuremberg rally and then cutting to Obama talking about heath care seem like important context when talking about the 2012 race.
What I am saying is the normal campaign crap that Romney faced was not some huge crime considering context.
Now I do think the tragedy is about Romney is the whole etch a sketch thing. I think he was a moderate type. But to get the nomination he had to play the role of an Ayn Randist.
It would have been great if he could have been the guy who came up with Romneycare. But the GOP primary voters would not allow it.
So when he said the 47 percent thing I don’t know if he believed it. I think he may have been playing a role to his donors. But you expect his political opponents to give that to him? I mean didn’t the GOP make a big deal out of “You didn’t build that” by changing the meaning of what Obama said to mean small business itself.
I mean this is the nature of politics. Is poliitics stupid and dishonest? Yes. But I see this Romney thing now as a “Get Out of Jail Free” card.
I wasn’t talking about the 47% thing, that was totally fair game. I was talking about everything I mentioned in my first post - “sexist, racist, cancer-causing, animal-abusing bully who wants to push grandma over a cliff,” those were all literal examples. The ads about the woman who got cancer because of him and Ryan pushing grandma off a cliff because of SS and Medicare,
that he abused animals because their dog rode on the roof of their car, that he was a bully supposedly cutting some kids hair, that “binders full of women” was supposed to be evidence of sexism.
It’s amusing when you bring up something like the Clinton kill list or Glenn Beck, and people just conveniently ignore it to continue with the “poor little Romney” talking point.
“Tiny” Fox? It was the biggest then and still is the biggest news network. Now it is clear you are just being a hack.
Yeah, talk radio and Fox are tiny compared ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC, 99% of other news and entertainment outlets, plus all other academia, art, culture, etc.
I definitely don't think it was especially brutal at all.
But in the story of the boy who cried wolf, the boy's defense that there is another even worse liar doesn't really change the moral at all.
Romney ran in 2012 as a cold-hearted asshole. The Romney we know from his later time in the senate bears no resemblance to that guy. You're absolutely right.
This neglects the point that Romney without power is a much more affable intelligent guy - and this likeable - than Romney In Office with a republican party led by Newt Gingrich.
It neglects that point because Newt was in charge almost 2 decades earlier
Like The IRA: he hadn’t gone away.
I didn't pay attention to every second, but I really struggled to overall, which hasn't happened in a while! TBH I'm still not entirely sure what it was about. I was also really excited by this character thinking he was some rootin tootin red haired big bearded personality and not someone who looks like they keep multiple cans of spray cheese in their fridge at all times.
I’m glad I’m not just dense - or at least I wasn’t the only one who found this hard to follow. Leaving aside the ethics of this guy maybe being certifiable, I had the sense that he was doing outlandish things but was having trouble tracking exactly in what way they were outlandish or why he was important
I've been waiting for the day when Richard comes on this show.
I’ve been waiting for the day where I can tolerate him so we’ll see.
I have no idea who he is give me the deats the drama why we don’t like him?
Someone with a weirdly incredible amount of reach considering the lack of intellect I hear in everything I’ve heard from him.
To be fair it was kind of an interesting story, but really poorly told. I felt like Katie and Jessie were working hard to try to constantly breathe life into it while he continues to punch down on someone who is truly mentally ill.
Well, he writes stuff like this, as of Feb, 2022: "As long as men and women are treated differently by society, they cannot engage in public debate with each other in a fair and consistent way.... I have no doubt that public discourse as a male space works better. That doesn’t mean women are barred from voting or discussing politics..." https://www.richardhanania.com/p/womens-tears-win-in-the-marketplace
Within the last couple of years he wrote in a tweet about a Black homeless person (who was killed in self-defense (justifiably) by a subway rider when he was acting threateningly) "These people are animals, whether they’re harassing people in subways or walking around in suits."
He has backtracked on his volumes of widely published pseudonymous unequivocally racist and misogynist writings (we're talking actual white male supremacist stuff in white male supremacist publications) that reached into the 2010s (see here: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/09/richard-hanania-racist-pseudoscience-woke-silicon-valley/675335/) claiming he "sucked" when he wrote those things (after he was found out).
He is currently (as we see the Epstein debacle creating a sharp turn in nationwide opinions about Trump) backtracking on his vote for and many opinions about Trump (see here: https://www.richardhanania.com/p/what-i-got-wrong-about-trump), even though he was one of Trump's advisors.
He does not seem to have a great track record for putting forth opinions or ideas that should be taken seriously. (No shade on our show hosts for having him (interesting episode) and looking forward to the primo episode!)
EDIT: To add tweet.
I don’t understand why I’m supposed to find him interesting or why he’s so great.
it's just one of those "criticizing a movement from within" things that ramp up people's rage-bait engagement since it appeals to "both sides" to get into arguments with him which in turn raises his profile.
Interesting. I should delve deeper into this individual. It kinda seems like he’s just an edgy heterodox right leaning guy though. Probably got into some weird spaces in his earlier years, but who didn’t? Of these examples the only real red flag to me is the eugenics thing, but even that is a somewhat mainstream discussion. I’m pretty sure a lot of European countries kill all the downies so eugenics is still alive in a sense.
Anyway, thanks
fwiw, i think his book 'the origins of woke' was great & really very useful. most people who listen to b&r or fifth column style shows would find it worth their time, i think.
Sounds like he's up your alley.
I feel like I heard a light scoff and an eye roll lol
I don't speak for the "we" but I liked him on this episode fine, but his tweeting pisses me off. He seems to switch his politics on what will annoy the most people. He was voting for trump in nov and then later gets some sort of praise (by Katie even) that he is now against trump and dunking on trumpers when... he should not get praise, he should be made fun of for not dunking on trumpers pre election. It isn't like he is 19 years old and is just learning about politics. And he acts like he is always on the moral high ground when he is on either side of these arguments.
“Yeah, what was he thinking? Supporting trump? Barbarian! Deplorable, inbred fool!”
I agreed with performative enthusiasm, eyes shifting nervously.
Lol
I am not against people for voting for trump. I didn't vote for him (or her, I wrote in Glenn Youngkin) and even gun to my head, I probably wanted him over her. But he acted morally superior for picking trump and now acts morally superior for being against trump. It's not consistent
Nah I got you. He’s a wishy washy full-of-shit grifter.
https://open.substack.com/pub/blockedandreported/p/primo-the-huffington-post-roasts?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android&r=1227ij
Oh, interesting! Will listen!
First BARPod episode where I actually started to doze off.
I don’t know if it’s the subject (never heard of him before) or Hanania’s annoying voice, but I just couldn’t bring myself to care at all about this one.
I'm just past the housekeeping segment and I might bail on this one. I've lost track of what's going on and I don't really care enough to figure it out.
Same omg 😭 I kept skipping back to re-listen when my thoughts trailed off but it was happening so often that about half-way through I decided to give up and come to the comments and see if it was just me.
If you become a paid subscriber to Richard Hanania you get Elite Human Capital status thrown in as a free extra
I don't even know if it was a good story or not (seemed hard to follow), because Hanania's constant guffawing and nervous chuckling was so distracting.
Don’t worry! It wasn’t a good story. It wasn’t much of a story at all.
This week on Katie’s Calipers - Mormons: what skull-shapes are allowed?
Don't confuse your Mormons with your Morons!
Hanania!
Do doo be-do-do
Hanania!
Do do-do do
Hanania!
Do doo de-do-do de-do-do de-do-do de-do-do-doodle do do do-doo do!
Why is he giggling so much?
Drugs would be my guess?
Good guess