YOU GUYS MY HUSBAND WENT ON TWO DATES WITH THIS WOMAN BEFORE WE MET!!! I can’t even believe it, this woman has been an inside joke to us for almost a decade now.
I was listening to this and from the other room my husband said, “Did they say Kendra Hilty?!” So he came over, thought it looked like her but wasn’t positive (she was more blonde when he knew her), but confirmed it was her when he looked up her full TikTok page.
So here’s his experience with her: All of this happened when we still lived in Portland, OR (where else could it occur), and on their first date, she walked him through a very dense homeless encampment as if it were charming and not depressing/dangerous. Then she insisted that they stop in the middle of a crosswalk so he could kiss her because it would he romantic or whatever, but it wasn’t at a light or anything, just a pedestrian crosswalk with oncoming traffic. My husband was basically like, “uh no I’m not gonna get hit by a car to kiss an off-putting stranger.”
At some point, she revealed that she had been in what sounded like a pretty serious car accident.*
They went on a second date (my husband is very nice and likes to give people the benefit of the doubt, sweet fool) and Kendra casually said, with zero irony or jest, that Mars is identical to earth in terms of landscape, atmosphere, resources, etc. Like, she thought my husband was crazy for not “knowing” that. *It was at this point my husband was like, “I’m pretty sure this woman sustained a traumatic brain injury in that car accident.”
Because the only other conclusion is that she’s straight up clinically insane. And I’m now leaning more toward that option. Or, ya know, why not both. Someone should take her license because it sounds like she just keeps getting into car accidents.
Needless to say, we are FREAKING OUT and crying with laughter. God, this poor psychiatrist. In another world (maybe Mars) this would all be happening to my husband.
Oh my God, an inability to correctly read and interpret the actions and motivations of others, a lack of focus, flights into psychosis and delusion--- you mention the car accident and I IMMEDIATELY went to "brain injury." I've known 2 people in my life who sustained brain injuries (one after a cardiac arrest and brain bleed/arterial dissection) another after being brutally beaten with a pipe (drug deal gone wrong). Both struggle now to properly interpret people's motivations and expressions, and the one who was beaten had hypersexual behavior that he never displayed prior to the TBI. It's an utter disgrace that people with BI's are given drugs like Adderall. So often professionals think that just because the patient can dress/feed/clean themselves, and speak and read, that there is no lasting damage. Honestly, not to victim blame but the shrink should have looked at her medical records from the accident and immediately referred her to a neuropsychiatrist. That's not to say he deserves the fixation, he doesn't, but damn we are failing people with brain injuries medically here!
Yeah brain injuries are absolutely fascinating (and usually pretty sad). I’ve met a few other people since who have TBIs, and it will only become apparent when they say or do something wild or utterly out of character.
My husband went to high school with a kid who got in a really bad car wreck over a summer, and when he came back to school the next year, he was dressing and acting like a cartoon cowboy.
My relative with the ABI (different than a TBI, but similar behavior change profile) fits the "only apparent on occasion" description but those occasions can be momentous and really scary for both her and anyone around her. I always say when I'm explaining the condition to people "she's not stupid, and she's not a baby, and she's not a mean person, but there will be moments where she will behave like someone she is not." You could hangout with her for 100 days and it would happen on day 125 or 130, then not again for another year or 2. It's wild.
He was in his late 20s when this happened, and when he went back to his food service job after this, he had new trouble keeping his hands off customers and co-workers. I knew him from my late teens- early twenties diner/watering hole (where I may or may not have been served underage, and which has since shut down), and this was definitely a personality change from the damage.
Yup, I have an elderly relative who had a TBI (head trauma) in his teens. This was long ago enough that medicine didn't really understand TBIs so if you survived, they didn't necessarily look for deficits beyond really obvious ones like whether they knew what year it was. Other relatives say that he changed after the TBI but in subtle ways, but he was able to function somewhat normally. He started having more problems in middle age: he could be impulsive and would behave inappropriately. He's on a ton of psych meds, but they can only treat some of the symptoms. There's nothing to be done to fix the deficits he has. And that makes it even sadder.
My cousin had a TBI a few years ago. It was a horrible accident he knocked himself out chasing his kids at a park - just ran right into a metal bar. Went from being a successful crown attorney (Canadian equivalent of DA) to being on disability, watching Fox News day and night, packing his entire family and life up and moving from a beautiful home to a 1 bedroom apartment in Florida because they now worship at the altar of Trump. He doesn’t work and just putters on disability with two kids. It’s tragic.
Had to turn this one off early. To earnestly suggest that the Kimmel thing is worse than where Biden White House was on free speech and censorship is baffling.
This happens to me too, and I always take the extra step to post in the comments that I turned off the episode early, so that the hosts can do better and improve and hopefully not make the same mistake in the next episode, which I may or may not consider listening to if they are lucky.
This if-you-don’t-like-it-then-why-are-you-posting-about-it mentality is so puzzling to me. We’re a community (one we pay a fee to be a part of, for that matter). I don’t see why we shouldn’t talk about the things we disagree with.
It's just pretty absurd to claim that the Biden admin privately pressuring companies to censor legal speech, often from people too small to fight back or draw attention to it, is significantly LESS bad than publicly going after Jimmy Kimmel, a prominent person who can easily fight back. And I hate the FCC under Brendan Carr.
It is much worse because it’s outright violating the law where everyone can see it happening, and just thumbing your nose at everyone. Total lawlessness.
When it came out what Biden admin had been doing it was a scandal and there were political and legal Consequences.
Will there be consequences for carr? I think not as long as trump likes him.
Consequences for what? Carr’s comments were very specific to Kimmel spreading misinformation, not insulting Trump. And Carr did nothing to follow up on it.
I don't even mind the "less bad" part (even though I disagree with it), it's just that when politics is involved Jesse (and to a much lesser degree, Katie) just devolve to the same "self-evident" bullsh*t we hear from all the demagogues. It's "stupid" or "clearly in the wrong" or "just dumb." For once, I'd like to hear Jesse really engage the opposing arguments on these political questions (not cultural questions, like the trans stuff, where he is truly a thoughtful, nuanced fellow).
It’s better than feeling angry. I’ve had to get in the habit of turning off videos and podcasts that upset me, even when I agree with what they’re saying (especially when I agree with what they’re saying) because it invokes emotions over things I’m ultimately powerless to counter. I can’t change media hypocrisy, so I’m better off just moving on with my life.
To use a BARPod example, the last time K&J went on Megyn Kelly’s show, Megyn started yelling at Katie pretty early on. I didn’t like hearing that, so I shut off the episode. I still watch Megyn’s show though.
Did you catch that Cori Cohn went on Ann Coulter’s show? She was fairly insulting to my ears at least to Cori, but after a lot of patience Cori was able to bring his message to Ann’s audience with sincerity.
I hear you! It’s a whole world I have in store to show my friends caught up in the TRA religion when they are ready. I’m just glad there are more and more interviews with people who have woken up.
Side question: did Corinna/Cori detransition? I infer from the name and pronouns that the answer is yes. I listened to a few episodes of Heterodorx several years ago and have seen news coverage of Cohn here and there, but have otherwise not kept up with this person. Does talk about it on Ann's show? I'm nosey and want to know the details haha
He describes himself as a gentleman of trans experience on Heterdorx and Informed Dissent podcasts. But impossible to really change back at 50 having had surgeries at 19. Also all the familial,and work relationships built under the assumption of being she.
The Biden White House was emailing social media companies directly demanding otherwise innocuous accounts be taken down. There was no auspice of a public pressure campaign.. just pure government censorship. So it was much worse. As evidenced by Kimmel being back on the air, the FCC issue had no impact whatsoever.
Just going to gloss over the VP telling people to act like regime informants? Or what's happening at DoD? Or the fact thay the FCC tried to do this at all shows you just how deep the shit is with these would be authoritarians?
And the FCC tried to do.. what? What shows were pulled off the air due to FCC pressure..? Name one. I’ll wait.. Kimmel was off for three days and this was reported even by the times to be due to business considerations, not FCC pressure. So yes, Biden officials emailing and calling every social media company demanding that any account stating that the vaccine didn’t stop covid transmission or that it might have started in a lab is WORSE by all measures. Notice you had to resort to empty headed whataboutism because you couldn’t defend the executive branch actively demanding private companies censor public voices even when there was no business pressure to do so? Even if I were liberal, I’d be embarrassed to be so brainwormed and misinformed.
The FCC is exerting its influence on M&A to get the regime its wins. Like most things the Trump mafia is doing, it is open corruption hiding the pure grift in the background.
Sorry you're so upset by the truth of what's happening, but looking forward to your continued cognitive dissonance expressed through unreadable screeds.
He was referencing calling people’s employers about comments praising an assassination.. not sending them to prison for doing that. So again.. no government imposition on free speech. Not sure what you think is happening at DoD that’s unprecedented - Biden did a huge sweep for anyone who had posted anything even remotely “far right” and they were wlso discharged. When you’re active duty, you don’t have the same first amendment rights - you obviously don’t have military experience or you’d know this.
I've been in the military, and affiliated with it in one way or another basically my whole life.
You know the only time I’ve ever seen political gear mixed in with official dress? When we bent over backwards to find a way to let the red hats get worn with BDU's.
I’m not going to continue debating with you. I’m simply not going to match your outrage that members of our armed forces - forces nearly every male in my bloodline has served in - aren’t permitted to publicly praise political assassinations. That’s a reasonable standard in this country. Had someone on your team been shot in the neck you’d be demanding firings too if any active duty was celebrating it. Go back to the longhouse.
It’s not my responsibility to keep you informed on matters that are clearly so important to you. Clearly as such a champion of free speech for our active dirt military - you keep
Yourself abreast both of military policy and of ideological purges in our armed forces… oh wait… surely you, opponent of authoritarian restrictions on speech in the military, will not need to google Stuart Scheller because you’ll know all about him and will have expressed outrage about his case contemporaneously!
The hosts are very biased. Joe Biden could have literally demanded that social media platforms censor right-wing opinions and they would still not call it out the way they are when Jimmy Kimmel misses two episodes.
I got the feeling they were talking about Trump 2.0 in its totality, not just Kimmel? For someone who pledged to protect free speech he’s doing a terrible job.
It was pretty painful. I think I’m going to start skipping to the actual story when I listen. I don’t think either host is knowledgeable enough to discuss politics in an interesting way. The humor that works great for internet bullshit comes off as callous and immature when talking about stories like Kirk’s death.
The issue is they've never really addressed the insane first amendment violations of the Biden administration because Jesse got radicalized by the (lazy) first antagonistic reporting on the twitter files and never turned back.
The issue is not that "they make fun of my enemies" but we "get really upset if they talk about [ours]"
It's that they have no idea about Biden's rampant censorship regime, and exclusively "make fun of" the republican reaction.
Kimmel's "censorship" is less than a millionth of an infringement of the entirety of the Biden administration. It's not even close. And it really rankles people when J&K pretend/are-willfully-ignorant on the issue.
You say that but I think you’re just wrong? Like, they focus more on the social crimes of the left, and the anti-free-speech grass roots left, but I’m sure they’ve also criticised the Biden administration as well for the same thing. There’s like 200 eps now, so I can’t point to a specific one, but they’ve always been VERY consistent in their free speech angle.
I believe I have listened to every episode of B&R (not the lives). They've consistently and forever been bad about the biden administration censorship. For a while they just didnt address it, then it kind of morphed into what it is now "ah yeah maybe the biden administration was doing something, but i hate Michael Shellenberger and will vaguely cast aspersions against the Twitter Files without actually engaging with the substance, and also regardless at least it was censorship trying to help people".
And it infuriates me every single time. And I usually end up leaving a comment. Because you cant be good on free speech while ignoring the govt administration stepping in directly to censor people for wrong think.
(I do think they did an episode on Nina Janciowitz and the "ministry of truth" story etc. When it came out. But that isnt what people were most mad about -- they were mad about the censoring!)
Their MO has always been to go after smaller fish in the illiberal-leftist-ecosystem. They focused SO much on the left, but that still wasn't good enough because they didn't talk about Biden specifically? Frankly, I don't care for them discussing the president regardless of which party is in power. There are a million other podcasts we could listen to for that discussion.
I don't know than a millionth. But it is pretty asinine to hear the exact same people be like "NBD" about the various twitter files and adjacent scandals later freak out about free speech.
On a number of people impacted multiplied by duration of censorship its easily a millionth as it pertains to kimmel.
Thats putting aside the direct govt conduct re: kimmel and acts of censorship pale in comparison to embedding programs at media companies to directly censor information, including, obviously true but inconvenient political information.
Here is Carr's statement in its totality:
"Frankly, when you see stuff like this, I mean, we can do this the easy way, or the hard way. These companies can find ways to change conduct, to take action, frankly, on Kimmel, or there’s going to be additional work for the FCC ahead.”
People who can't see the parallels there to the Biden administration's public statements are crazy
And again, thats putting aside the actual substance of the "twitter files" and related reporting of what happened behind the scenes to act out the censorship. If j&k want to continue to be intentionally misinformed on those materials, that isn't even necessary to understand the govt actions in covid far exceeded that of the kimmel story
It isn't *just* the Kimmel story, though. It's the thousands of people fired for run of the mill political views... it's the justice department turning itself into a weapon of the regime and openly shitting on the first ammendment. It's the DoD doing the same thing.
I don't disagree with you, just thought you were and still are being hyperbolic. But the left's total inability to interact with the reality of its extremely similar if slightly more nuanced/hidden behavior is very maddening, so I can see where it would lead to exaggeration.
Maybe they are softer on Biden's censorship because they took COVID really seriously as a public health crisis and either felt that at least some of the admin's overreaction was understandable/forgiveable, or felt at the time it would save lives.
Not saying I agree with that, but to me that is different from the Trump administration's reaction to Kimmel.
I think someone needs to create a chart comparing and contrasting Biden admin censorship with Trump admin. Then we could all be on the same page about who is worse. I'd get on it but I'm to busy rinsing out a few things.
Seriously, all censorship is bad. Softening your side's malfeasance while inflating the other's solves nothing.
I mean, sure, I think that's right. They didn't have a big issue with the censorship because they may have liked it and thought it was helpful during the pandemic. (Query why there was also less interest in the fact that true speech on covid was censored as well as non-covid censorship efforts under the Biden administration regarding things spuriously cast under the guise of "election integrity", but I digress)
Trump supporters could say that the Kimmel pressure was pressure to tone down political violence by not inflaming tensions with false accusations regarding shooter affiliations, and therefore save lives by toning down rhetoric. I think that argument is largely dumb, but also think that argument is significantly more persuasive than "we have to censor true speech on covid because of the person saying it, it doesn't align with CDC strategy, etc."
But that's just it at the end of the day, free speech is too important to make exceptions based on value judgments on the merits/harm of speech. And I very much dislike the hosts' lack of commitment to free speech in the Biden administration.
Jesse (and to a much lesser extent, Katie) just aren't thoughtful on these political questions. Everything he doesn't like is just "dumb" or "horrible."
Remind me when Kamala said you should rat out your neighbor to the employer? Or said the state would do what it could to take away your livelihood for political opposition?
Under Biden the state fired people for not taking the COVID vaccine so.. again.. huh? And the state didn’t do anything to take away anyone’s livelihood. He expressed his personal support for people getting fired FOR PRAISING AN ASSASSINATION. I assure you, the Biden admin fired people for having otherwise milquetoast conservative views. You simply never heard about it.. your confidence is embarrassing - the delusions of someone who thinks things only start happening as soon as they started paying attention.
Find me the stats on who was fired? And even then surely you cam see that and the assertion that political enemies are terrorists for not being upset one of your sides' demagogues got killed?
Quick rorschach test: was Kimmel "praising" the assassination? Was the guy who said he wouldn't mourn Kirk? Or the EMT who said she couldn't be sad about it?
The issue is that "milquetoast conservative views" in the last few years have included 1, the 2020 election was stolen 2, January 6 was a legitimate protest and not a treasonous act to overthrow an election, 3, covid is a hoax/the covid vaccine will kill you/ any an other act of fuckery, etc. Pressuring social media companies to deplatform accounts spreading what the admin identifies as misinformation isn't great, but threatening to pull the license of a broadcaster because they said make a comment about how MAGA was reacting to Kirk, and mainly because the president has very thin skin and cannot handle criticism is a very different monster. He is asking the justice department to make up allegations about his enemies. He is threatening the tax status of charities he doesn't like. He is acting like the tyrant that you conservatives have been arming yourselves to fight against for decades and now he's your guy?
The online right gets embarrassed by many things.. some of which I myself find embarrassing but so it goes. I think Katy has touched on this but there’s a lot more open debate and dissent on the right than on the left. Trump gets plenty of criticism - whether it’s over Epstein, bondi sucking, too few deportations, whatever. You guys simple have no theory of mind or awareness of our ecosystem but a delusional sense of confidence that you do. The right understands the left because we’re forced to live in your ecosystem while you can very easily avoid ours.
I find it odd that folks that are so upset about Kimmel didn't bat an eyelash when Charlie Rose was disappeared in 2017 over "allegations". No trial, no clear evidence. Just gone.
Trump’s attacks on free speech are petty and usually immaterial one-offs. They are meant to be out in plain view and to trigger the libs. The Biden admin’s speech interventions were policy-based and calculated to evade notice, to obfuscate, and to placate liberal concerns.
Jesus Christ, who the hell cares? These aren't quantifiable transgressions, the debate over which is "worse" is an exercise in political point-scoring rather than addressing the core of the actual problem. Neither of these things should be happening, period, and the fact that both sides are engaging in it tells me that there's a deeper issue with people writ large not understanding the importance of a robust firewall between the government and mass media. People cheer it on whenever their "side" engages in illiberal, authoritarian behavior and condemn it when the opposition does it.
Maybe instead of crying about "who started it" or "who's worse," everyone should take accountability for the bad behaviors in their own political spheres. Change has to come from within. YOU have to be the change you want to see in your own party. Liberals have to stand against illiberalism on their side of the aisle, and conservatives have to stop enabling authoritarianism as "vengeance," or whatever. Just fucking stop, because if you don't, the cycle will continue to escalate.
I'm also just sick of every single comment section lately having whiners talking about how they couldn't even FINISH the episode because some moderate opinion given by one of the hosts offended their delicate sensibilities. Jesus Christ, just leave if you hate the show so much! Why are you paying for a podcast you apparently can't stand to watch?
I'm definitely not a leftist nor a Dem anymore, but I cannot imagine being such a pussy that someone saying "I wish you would leave this voluntary intangible location" would come off as fasciam to me.
Right?? I came here to say that. Trumps lap dog barked. There were no fines. JK is back and the affiliates let him back on. Doesn’t sound like a fascisim to me? It is faaaar worse to shadow pressure companies to remove or censor citizens without recourse. The average you tuber or X denizen doesn’t have the legal resources to fight the government. A good example was Dr Jay Bhattacharya.
Also I think most people were mad because JK implied it was a right winger who shot CK with his strange wording. Classic misinformation on public airwaves.
I find trumps actions next level. I do think Katie and Jessie tried a bit too hard. “Bad things for good reasons” is always the tropish response of the offender.
But having the FCC openly announce they’ll target you is next level from the power incentive implied in asking a favor.
It really is, in the literal sense of literally…..literally unprecedented.
I don't love how the biden handled social media during the pandemic, and the backlash ended up causing more harm than the speech they were trying to suppress, but an administration trying to block legitimate misinformation during a crisis is just a little different than an administration giving a mafia style threat to fucking disney because a late night host made a joke the president didn't like. Also, you win because the covid misinformationists have control of our country now and we don't have to take vaccines ever again!
Thank god it’s not as bad as shariah law london. I hear they’re shooting people for dropping the haitch in ‘Hertford Hereford and Hampshire Hurricanes hardly happen (prise be the prophet)’
Sorry no way Kimmel came off because he made a Trump joke. I think they mentioned on the fifth column that Kimmel had made 1500 Trump jokes so far this year.
The clip escalated in right wing media because he strongly implied that the Kirk shooter was right wing and the right wing was flexing its cancelling muscles over bad statements in the wake of the Kirk shooting.
the corporate overlords, in addition to being cowards, are probably losing money on his show and were close to cancelling it anyway like Colbert was already this year. Temporarily cancelling him and all the associated attention and rallying was probably the best thing for his career right now.
They weren't losing money on the show. the show isn't super profitable, but according to the Town, they weren't losing money on it. Kimmel is the face of NBC - they weren't looking for an excuse to ditch him.
The affiliates are trying to merge, need the FCC to ok the merger, and thus acquiesced to Carr/Trump. Disney initially caved because they didn't want the FCC after them either, but then realized that caving was even worse for their business (and the Disney head did not like the negative publicity he personally was getting from Hollywood) and so caved on the caving.
Either way it is terrible that the head of the FCC personally threatened a broadcaster for airing speech he did not like, speech that does not pass any reasonable standard for censorship.
When stuff like Kimmel happens, or when people get cancelled, I think one of about three things:
1) The subject (Kimmel) probably had already been doing other stuff, and this thing just pushed the employer over the edge. (Low ratings?) The subject just wan't worth the fight.
2) The employer is thin-skinned and weak-spined. Lacking principles and fortitude are widespread traits lately.
3) The government really did put undue pressure on an individual. It can happen--but then I'd expect a lawsuit against the gov't (assuming #2 isn't in play).
None are good, though #1 is probably the most palatable explanations if/when it happens.
Bro getting tired of y’all running cover for leftist horse shit with the good ol’ lines such as, “It’s complicated, it was a weird time, it was foggy, no one really knew what was going on.”
Y’all, and I mean any and all lefty establishment types, fuck up and push absolute nonsense and then years later just shrug and say “Come on guys let’s move on, look what the right’s doing, it’s so much worse! THEY’RE Nazis!”
Or my personal favorite from the last few weeks, “Does it really matter which ideology led to this? Let’s just move on to fixing it.”
This is like last week. I don't understand why people subscribe to a substack they don't like. Do you think posts like this will shake them up and get them to come around to your view?
It's like The Free Press comment section, which is packed with people who don't like the product.
I left DeBoer's substack when it was clear he is an unstable dick.
I joined the Bulwark when they hired Cathy Young. I left when another writer called Andrew Sullivan a Trump supporter.
I left Glenn Loury when he praised Coates and then brought on Tucker Carlson.
It's ok to walk away when you don't like something.
"If you disagree with one particular political point the hosts of an internet drama podcast make, you must unsubscribe immediately instead of voicing you objections!"
What do you get out of voicing your objections? I really want to know. Going back to the TFP situation. Does the Moondog post seem like a civil observation?
What do Jesse and Katie "get" for arguing against cancelations they disagree with? It's not like leftist advocacy orgs are going to listen to Blocked and Reported and stop canceling people.
The point of speech isn't always to persuade the people you're talking about. Frequently it's to persuade third parties who are watching the discussion. In this case, the comments here are as much for the other listeners of the podcast as they are for the hosts.
Maybe the original comment was rude, but the idea that the function of a comment section is purely a parasocial thing isn't true.
I point back to my previous post. What was the point of posting something like that? He was trying to persuade third parties on his position? I don't think you think that.
Your description of persuading third parties sounds like a parasocial thing but with other posters.
Counter counter point. Read the Moondog post and tell me if you think that tone is OK. Or we should just shrug at that kind of thing. I am very proud of the genial public park we have created in the comments section that Katie and Jesse brag about.
Based on listening to many of the podcasts on offer here, there is a trend of extreme, desperate personalities posting extreme, desperate sentiments for attention and when that becomes normalized, the normies flee from that space. I think the best way to avoid that cycle is to snuff it at the start.
All I can do is point at their 524 episodes and say they have a solid record on standing up for free speech regardless of the political beliefs of those targeted for criticism and/or censure. I think that's what this podcast does. That's what it is.
I have wondered if because Sullivan despises William Kristol over his unapologetic neocon Iraq history that the Bulwark is ok with making a charge like that.
To be fair to you I am actually going that way. But I’ve been subscribed to them for a while. Years. They were fine during Biden and then their brains deflated again now that Trump is back.
It’s their podcast. They can do what they want. But I am at least entitled by my money to express my opinion of the product. The rest of this episode was fine. I strongly dislike 25% at most of their commentary. The rest is mostly fine. Jumping ship for that seems too much. I just wish they weren’t so quick to jump on ridiculous leftist narratives.
A good cause? I will have to skip the preliminary talk and go right to the episode which I do more times than I wish I had too….. I try to listen but it’s definitely drone only one POV!
Somewhat unrelated. I am trying really hard to not use these new sub badges to judge commenters.
But it really is funny the number of ~3+ year subscribers that found the podcast during covid and have been around and critical of J&K consistently on topics like covid and the biden administrations censorship regime. There is definitely a cohort of familiar names in my "likes" going back well over two years.
My sense is the audience ideological diversity has steadily decreased over time. And i think we are all worse for it.
Actually Do you not think that the Biden admin believes its actions re: COVID and social media “misinformation” would protect public health during an emergency, and so might be worth the trade off in terms of freedom of speech?
I personally don’t think it was worth the trade off especially since a lot of what they blocked wasn’t misinformation at all. But certainly slowing the spread of COVID would be a “good cause”, if this actually worked, right?
*Neoliberal/progressive, not leftist. Leftists and Marxists were/are against lockdowns and mandates. Many extreme communists/tankies believe germ theory itself is an anti-proletarian construct meant to thwart free assembly of workers.
They've literally being saying "It's complicated" since the first episode, it's practically the podcast's catchphrase. You're just getting upset because the nuance doesn't benefit you personally in this case. You are welcome to spend your money somewhere else.
I was disappointed. Maybe they were uncomfortable discussing someone in the midst of a psychotic break.
I wanted to hear a discussion about transference (it's not a new phenomenon, Freud wrote about it); the ethical considerations of a platform when it comes to mental illness; why she needed to preface every mention of her therapist by saying "75 yr old"?; and jumping Jehoshaphat, the whole AI advice angle, WHOA, not great; and lastly, what does it say about us that we are all watching this like Tiger King during lockdown?
The number of reaction videos on this story is CRAY, and it's also been covered in other media: LA Times, NBC news, People magazine, etc. which is where you will find this sort of analysis.
The sad thing is that it's probably going to have a very negative effect on her life. Obviously doing what she did to her psychiatrist was really bad, and could have ruined his career, but it's pretty clear that she was having a psychotic break rather than making it up to get attention or get back at him for some slight. It would be reasonable to keep this incident in mind when dealing with her, but she doesn't deserve to have her life ruined over it. If she were in the EU, she could sue to have it removed but that's not going to happen here in the US.
I guess that's a long-winded way of saying that even though she did something terrible, I feel a bit sorry for her and hope she's eventually able to get her life back on track.
yeah, this made me sad. I was slightly invested in subplot around the gay magician son, though.
I'm touched by Katie/Janna's impulse to care for the aged around them. After spending years caring for my mother, I find myself being more present with and interested in the senior community members I live near. The elderly are so often neglected, and even though Katie (rightfully, in my view) disagreed with his racism, I'm glad she could help make his final years slightly less lonely.
There are quite a few aging racists where I live (and some younger ones, too), including an uncle of mine. I always try to keep in mind that alot of these people were hurt terribly in their youth by engineered events and policies meant to stoke discord and mistrust between groups of (mostly poor) people. Some of them grow with age and disavow the racism taught to them earlier, but others become more entrenched. I like to try and lead by example without being too preachy. My dad went from being genuinely racist in his teens and early 20s (using the n word and the k word, etc) and it took working alongside Spanish and African-American people one factory job for the baked-in neighborhood racism to leave him. It's not at all hopeless.
Caring for this man is really what it's ALL about. You and I (anyone, and I) agree on 98% of the world's stuff--and the other 2% doesn't erase you or me, doesn't diminish either of our humanity, and doesn't qualify either of us for anything less than polite, helpful care of each other.
Give someone else a hand everyone once in a while, and don't worry about what they think/believe/love/hate.
Your actions of love and care will win more arguments than your words ever will.
I feel a bit sad, he was such a presence on the show, I feel like he was my racist neighbor. Clearly he was in a lot of pain, sickness, and filled with vitriol I hope he has found peace.
I think Katie and Jackoff missed the mark on the Kimmel show segment. The right didn't have their panties in a wad because of the Trump joke. The Orange one may have been pissed.....but most of the right was upset because Kimmel emphatically said the shooter was one of the MAGA tribe. By the time he said that....it was clear that the killer was pretty left wing with a trans partner. He never corrected himself or apologized for that gaslighting.
If he didn’t mean that, why didn’t he agree to clarify? Instead, he refused, planned to double down, and was taken off air. And even when put back on air, he apologized for people getting offended. He never clarified that the shooter was not MAGA.
It clarifies why he was yanked. If he had returned with the correct info and apologized for trying to slime the right…like he does every night, it might have turned out differently.
It's no wonder Jimmy Kimmel was taken off the air. There was a large business deal going on behind the scenes between something like the parent company of ABC and another entity. If several hundred million is on the line and a callus punk employee threatens it, swift discipline is absolutely appropriate.
10/10 quintessential BarPod episode. Narcissistic online idiots who used to get away with this stuff and now it’s super cringe. Keep the the banter at the start! My favorite part actually. Maybe I don’t have friends where I can talk openly about this stuff :-( i don’t need to agree with them but openly talking is refreshing.
I had an ex who would automatically interpret almost everything anyone else said or did in the most negative light possible. This Kendra woman is clearly the same way.
It is stereotypical BPD, but there is no medical treatment for BPD and it's not like psychiatrists have some special power to avoid the consequences of this terrible condition.
How is there "no comparison" between what the Biden admin did and the Trump admin are doing? Because the Biden admin did it privately?
The Biden administration was REGULARLY pressuring private companies to censor people for legal speech, and many of those people weren't that prominent. Alex Berenson was able to fight back, but many people couldn't. In the case of Kimmel, he's very prominent, he'll be fine.
Both administrations are wrong to jaw-bone private companies for legal speech. Your bias leads you to give the Dems more of a pass, for instance "they were trying to save lives during covid" (I'm not saying that's exactly what Jesse and Katie think). The supposedly benevolent intentions of the Biden admin (I'm not sure how benevolent it is when much of the speech they were attacking was both legal AND not even untrue) is irrelevant. It's wrong and doing it privately doesn't change anything, it's probably worse.
A government which is so sure they're doing the right thing that they silence any argument to the contrary is a uniquely terrifying thing. Whatever the intent, many of the COVID policies turned out to be pointless if not actively harmful, and probably some of these mistakes could have been avoided if there had been more room for dissent from the start. (To be fair this is not only an issue of government censorship, but more generally partisan groupthink and social media mob rule.)
Having worked in the forensic behaviour space for quite some time, I've come across a couple of Kendras before. One particular case was so terrible, I watched it ruin a clinician’s life in real time. After, I shit you not, only two sessions with him, this colourful individual spent the next 20+ years stalking and obsessing over him. Clinically fascinating but horrifying on a human level.
Disappointing but not surprising that this grifter is being enabled by her followers. I wonder if we’re now going to see a surge of transference stories, similar to the DID self-diagnosis social contagion?
from the first clip, I was like, yep, erotic transference and a cluster b disorder. Complete inability to perceive internal emotional states as separate from actual reality.
Katie, please please please link to the trans blind Jewish cancer tiktok, I'll never ever criticize you all for anything ever again if you give us this 🙏
I actually think the other one mentioned is likely too to some extent. The "Reesa Teesa" one. Out of curiosity I read a detailed summary of the specific claims, and the timelines simply don't line up on a lot of it. Sounds like a lot of it happened, but there is significant fuckery in the timeline going on. Sometimes in the narrative there are like 6 or 8 weeks of events happening in like 10 days. Which means someone is crafting the story a bit or changing the order of events.
the most unrealistic part for me was that the psychiatrist never tried to prescribe her antipsychotics. or kept prescribing her adderall. seems like his red flags would've been going off much sooner and if it is even a little true, he's terrible at his job
I feel like Jimmy Kimmel and many of the censorship right now of the media is really a story of media consolidation and the government not instituting antimonopoly and antitrust legislation. I also think in turn that means that this is about government corruption, but I think that’s the bigger issue that we have generally.
Ah I see I thought it was a reply to another message. Apologies. That weird line linking replies was just a reflection. Probably a dark reflection of a dark universe.
They talked about Jimmy Kimmel at the beginning and about his cancellation and I was just thinking about this in terms of why these companies aren’t standing up to the government which has been the salient issue. we have all these billionaires hanging out with the government and owning every platform that we use.
I was right in the middle of watching a video about this chick when this popped up. I'm trying to not let empathy creep in to my perception of this gal, it's ruining the best internet spectacle we've had in a while.
Keep in mind she had tens of thousands of people telling her she was delusional basically from the jump, and she maintained her story in the face of that.
It's the classic lolcow dynamic. Kiwi Farmers call it "white knighting". You first get exposed to Chris Chan or whoever and you think "Man, people are being really mean to this guy! He just needs some good advice and a friend to hear him out". But after a couple of years you realize that he's had many, many people try to help him in that way over the years, and he has instead continued to seek out the audiences that enable his self-destructive tendencies. You get frustrated with this, post some mean comments, and the next guy comes along to repeat the cycle by calling YOU an asshole.
Kendra definitely has the lolcow tendency to double down in the face of opposition; when you're correct, it's a virtue, but when you're wildly wrong, it's a personality flaw.
YOU GUYS MY HUSBAND WENT ON TWO DATES WITH THIS WOMAN BEFORE WE MET!!! I can’t even believe it, this woman has been an inside joke to us for almost a decade now.
I was listening to this and from the other room my husband said, “Did they say Kendra Hilty?!” So he came over, thought it looked like her but wasn’t positive (she was more blonde when he knew her), but confirmed it was her when he looked up her full TikTok page.
So here’s his experience with her: All of this happened when we still lived in Portland, OR (where else could it occur), and on their first date, she walked him through a very dense homeless encampment as if it were charming and not depressing/dangerous. Then she insisted that they stop in the middle of a crosswalk so he could kiss her because it would he romantic or whatever, but it wasn’t at a light or anything, just a pedestrian crosswalk with oncoming traffic. My husband was basically like, “uh no I’m not gonna get hit by a car to kiss an off-putting stranger.”
At some point, she revealed that she had been in what sounded like a pretty serious car accident.*
They went on a second date (my husband is very nice and likes to give people the benefit of the doubt, sweet fool) and Kendra casually said, with zero irony or jest, that Mars is identical to earth in terms of landscape, atmosphere, resources, etc. Like, she thought my husband was crazy for not “knowing” that. *It was at this point my husband was like, “I’m pretty sure this woman sustained a traumatic brain injury in that car accident.”
Because the only other conclusion is that she’s straight up clinically insane. And I’m now leaning more toward that option. Or, ya know, why not both. Someone should take her license because it sounds like she just keeps getting into car accidents.
Needless to say, we are FREAKING OUT and crying with laughter. God, this poor psychiatrist. In another world (maybe Mars) this would all be happening to my husband.
Oh my God, an inability to correctly read and interpret the actions and motivations of others, a lack of focus, flights into psychosis and delusion--- you mention the car accident and I IMMEDIATELY went to "brain injury." I've known 2 people in my life who sustained brain injuries (one after a cardiac arrest and brain bleed/arterial dissection) another after being brutally beaten with a pipe (drug deal gone wrong). Both struggle now to properly interpret people's motivations and expressions, and the one who was beaten had hypersexual behavior that he never displayed prior to the TBI. It's an utter disgrace that people with BI's are given drugs like Adderall. So often professionals think that just because the patient can dress/feed/clean themselves, and speak and read, that there is no lasting damage. Honestly, not to victim blame but the shrink should have looked at her medical records from the accident and immediately referred her to a neuropsychiatrist. That's not to say he deserves the fixation, he doesn't, but damn we are failing people with brain injuries medically here!
I wonder if this applies to Taylor Lorenz?
Yeah brain injuries are absolutely fascinating (and usually pretty sad). I’ve met a few other people since who have TBIs, and it will only become apparent when they say or do something wild or utterly out of character.
My husband went to high school with a kid who got in a really bad car wreck over a summer, and when he came back to school the next year, he was dressing and acting like a cartoon cowboy.
My relative with the ABI (different than a TBI, but similar behavior change profile) fits the "only apparent on occasion" description but those occasions can be momentous and really scary for both her and anyone around her. I always say when I'm explaining the condition to people "she's not stupid, and she's not a baby, and she's not a mean person, but there will be moments where she will behave like someone she is not." You could hangout with her for 100 days and it would happen on day 125 or 130, then not again for another year or 2. It's wild.
That just sounds like a midlife crisis - perhaps he knew that the accident had dramatically shortened his lifespan?
He was in his late 20s when this happened, and when he went back to his food service job after this, he had new trouble keeping his hands off customers and co-workers. I knew him from my late teens- early twenties diner/watering hole (where I may or may not have been served underage, and which has since shut down), and this was definitely a personality change from the damage.
Yup, I have an elderly relative who had a TBI (head trauma) in his teens. This was long ago enough that medicine didn't really understand TBIs so if you survived, they didn't necessarily look for deficits beyond really obvious ones like whether they knew what year it was. Other relatives say that he changed after the TBI but in subtle ways, but he was able to function somewhat normally. He started having more problems in middle age: he could be impulsive and would behave inappropriately. He's on a ton of psych meds, but they can only treat some of the symptoms. There's nothing to be done to fix the deficits he has. And that makes it even sadder.
My cousin had a TBI a few years ago. It was a horrible accident he knocked himself out chasing his kids at a park - just ran right into a metal bar. Went from being a successful crown attorney (Canadian equivalent of DA) to being on disability, watching Fox News day and night, packing his entire family and life up and moving from a beautiful home to a 1 bedroom apartment in Florida because they now worship at the altar of Trump. He doesn’t work and just putters on disability with two kids. It’s tragic.
You should email K&J this to make sure they see it. Maybe they’ll share it on the pod.
This sounds like chronic Manic Pixieitis
Verrrrrry lucky escape. A more agreeable man would have been trapped by the virtue signalling.
If my husband had wound up with her, maybe I’D be with the psychiatrist lol
Who would be in love with you!
Wow! Seriously wow!
Best. Post. Evuh! Honestly, I am only halfway through the ep but this post had me crying.
Was she hot?
Had to turn this one off early. To earnestly suggest that the Kimmel thing is worse than where Biden White House was on free speech and censorship is baffling.
I hear you. I always have to switch stuff off when it briefly mentions something I might not totally agree with. It’s just so unbearable.
This happens to me too, and I always take the extra step to post in the comments that I turned off the episode early, so that the hosts can do better and improve and hopefully not make the same mistake in the next episode, which I may or may not consider listening to if they are lucky.
This if-you-don’t-like-it-then-why-are-you-posting-about-it mentality is so puzzling to me. We’re a community (one we pay a fee to be a part of, for that matter). I don’t see why we shouldn’t talk about the things we disagree with.
Excuse me but if you don’t include the 👏👏👏👏when you tell them to do better they will never learn. DO 👏BETTER👏!
It's just pretty absurd to claim that the Biden admin privately pressuring companies to censor legal speech, often from people too small to fight back or draw attention to it, is significantly LESS bad than publicly going after Jimmy Kimmel, a prominent person who can easily fight back. And I hate the FCC under Brendan Carr.
It is much worse because it’s outright violating the law where everyone can see it happening, and just thumbing your nose at everyone. Total lawlessness.
When it came out what Biden admin had been doing it was a scandal and there were political and legal Consequences.
Will there be consequences for carr? I think not as long as trump likes him.
Consequences for what? Carr’s comments were very specific to Kimmel spreading misinformation, not insulting Trump. And Carr did nothing to follow up on it.
I don't even mind the "less bad" part (even though I disagree with it), it's just that when politics is involved Jesse (and to a much lesser degree, Katie) just devolve to the same "self-evident" bullsh*t we hear from all the demagogues. It's "stupid" or "clearly in the wrong" or "just dumb." For once, I'd like to hear Jesse really engage the opposing arguments on these political questions (not cultural questions, like the trans stuff, where he is truly a thoughtful, nuanced fellow).
It’s better than feeling angry. I’ve had to get in the habit of turning off videos and podcasts that upset me, even when I agree with what they’re saying (especially when I agree with what they’re saying) because it invokes emotions over things I’m ultimately powerless to counter. I can’t change media hypocrisy, so I’m better off just moving on with my life.
To use a BARPod example, the last time K&J went on Megyn Kelly’s show, Megyn started yelling at Katie pretty early on. I didn’t like hearing that, so I shut off the episode. I still watch Megyn’s show though.
Did you catch that Cori Cohn went on Ann Coulter’s show? She was fairly insulting to my ears at least to Cori, but after a lot of patience Cori was able to bring his message to Ann’s audience with sincerity.
I hadn’t heard of Cori Cohn before now. I’m not as deep in the weeds on detransitioners as a lot of people here are.
I hear you! It’s a whole world I have in store to show my friends caught up in the TRA religion when they are ready. I’m just glad there are more and more interviews with people who have woken up.
So Ann was opposed to the detransitioner? I’m surprised to hear that.
Side question: did Corinna/Cori detransition? I infer from the name and pronouns that the answer is yes. I listened to a few episodes of Heterodorx several years ago and have seen news coverage of Cohn here and there, but have otherwise not kept up with this person. Does talk about it on Ann's show? I'm nosey and want to know the details haha
He describes himself as a gentleman of trans experience on Heterdorx and Informed Dissent podcasts. But impossible to really change back at 50 having had surgeries at 19. Also all the familial,and work relationships built under the assumption of being she.
Lol, of course you do
You seem a bit obsessed, my friend.
It is objectively worse.
The Biden White House was emailing social media companies directly demanding otherwise innocuous accounts be taken down. There was no auspice of a public pressure campaign.. just pure government censorship. So it was much worse. As evidenced by Kimmel being back on the air, the FCC issue had no impact whatsoever.
Just going to gloss over the VP telling people to act like regime informants? Or what's happening at DoD? Or the fact thay the FCC tried to do this at all shows you just how deep the shit is with these would be authoritarians?
And the FCC tried to do.. what? What shows were pulled off the air due to FCC pressure..? Name one. I’ll wait.. Kimmel was off for three days and this was reported even by the times to be due to business considerations, not FCC pressure. So yes, Biden officials emailing and calling every social media company demanding that any account stating that the vaccine didn’t stop covid transmission or that it might have started in a lab is WORSE by all measures. Notice you had to resort to empty headed whataboutism because you couldn’t defend the executive branch actively demanding private companies censor public voices even when there was no business pressure to do so? Even if I were liberal, I’d be embarrassed to be so brainwormed and misinformed.
The FCC is exerting its influence on M&A to get the regime its wins. Like most things the Trump mafia is doing, it is open corruption hiding the pure grift in the background.
Sorry you're so upset by the truth of what's happening, but looking forward to your continued cognitive dissonance expressed through unreadable screeds.
Which wins? I’m not upset at all.. I’m embarrassed for you. If Disney is so concerned about the FCC, why is Kimmel back on air?
‘What shows were pulled off air, name one, I’ll wait’…. (Proceeds to name show).
Classic.
No im still waiting on the show that got pulled due to government pressure. Can you name one for me…?
He was referencing calling people’s employers about comments praising an assassination.. not sending them to prison for doing that. So again.. no government imposition on free speech. Not sure what you think is happening at DoD that’s unprecedented - Biden did a huge sweep for anyone who had posted anything even remotely “far right” and they were wlso discharged. When you’re active duty, you don’t have the same first amendment rights - you obviously don’t have military experience or you’d know this.
And lol at "you'd know this"
I've been in the military, and affiliated with it in one way or another basically my whole life.
You know the only time I’ve ever seen political gear mixed in with official dress? When we bent over backwards to find a way to let the red hats get worn with BDU's.
I’m not going to continue debating with you. I’m simply not going to match your outrage that members of our armed forces - forces nearly every male in my bloodline has served in - aren’t permitted to publicly praise political assassinations. That’s a reasonable standard in this country. Had someone on your team been shot in the neck you’d be demanding firings too if any active duty was celebrating it. Go back to the longhouse.
Then you know that when you’re active duty you can’t just say whatever you choose.
"They were also discharged"
Citation needed.
It’s not my responsibility to keep you informed on matters that are clearly so important to you. Clearly as such a champion of free speech for our active dirt military - you keep
Yourself abreast both of military policy and of ideological purges in our armed forces… oh wait… surely you, opponent of authoritarian restrictions on speech in the military, will not need to google Stuart Scheller because you’ll know all about him and will have expressed outrage about his case contemporaneously!
The issue of what to do about closing the economy and schools vs Jimmy Kimmel, hum? And Trump is behaving like a jerk.
It is obviously not *just* Jimmy Kimmel.
The hosts are very biased. Joe Biden could have literally demanded that social media platforms censor right-wing opinions and they would still not call it out the way they are when Jimmy Kimmel misses two episodes.
Oh wait, Biden did do that.
A podcast host? With a BIAS? Oh heavens! [clutches rosary]
I got the feeling they were talking about Trump 2.0 in its totality, not just Kimmel? For someone who pledged to protect free speech he’s doing a terrible job.
It was pretty painful. I think I’m going to start skipping to the actual story when I listen. I don’t think either host is knowledgeable enough to discuss politics in an interesting way. The humor that works great for internet bullshit comes off as callous and immature when talking about stories like Kirk’s death.
It’s good when they make fun of my enemies and make fun of their sensitivity but I’ll get really upset if they talk about mine!
The issue is they've never really addressed the insane first amendment violations of the Biden administration because Jesse got radicalized by the (lazy) first antagonistic reporting on the twitter files and never turned back.
The issue is not that "they make fun of my enemies" but we "get really upset if they talk about [ours]"
It's that they have no idea about Biden's rampant censorship regime, and exclusively "make fun of" the republican reaction.
Kimmel's "censorship" is less than a millionth of an infringement of the entirety of the Biden administration. It's not even close. And it really rankles people when J&K pretend/are-willfully-ignorant on the issue.
You say that but I think you’re just wrong? Like, they focus more on the social crimes of the left, and the anti-free-speech grass roots left, but I’m sure they’ve also criticised the Biden administration as well for the same thing. There’s like 200 eps now, so I can’t point to a specific one, but they’ve always been VERY consistent in their free speech angle.
I believe I have listened to every episode of B&R (not the lives). They've consistently and forever been bad about the biden administration censorship. For a while they just didnt address it, then it kind of morphed into what it is now "ah yeah maybe the biden administration was doing something, but i hate Michael Shellenberger and will vaguely cast aspersions against the Twitter Files without actually engaging with the substance, and also regardless at least it was censorship trying to help people".
And it infuriates me every single time. And I usually end up leaving a comment. Because you cant be good on free speech while ignoring the govt administration stepping in directly to censor people for wrong think.
(I do think they did an episode on Nina Janciowitz and the "ministry of truth" story etc. When it came out. But that isnt what people were most mad about -- they were mad about the censoring!)
Their MO has always been to go after smaller fish in the illiberal-leftist-ecosystem. They focused SO much on the left, but that still wasn't good enough because they didn't talk about Biden specifically? Frankly, I don't care for them discussing the president regardless of which party is in power. There are a million other podcasts we could listen to for that discussion.
I don't know than a millionth. But it is pretty asinine to hear the exact same people be like "NBD" about the various twitter files and adjacent scandals later freak out about free speech.
On a number of people impacted multiplied by duration of censorship its easily a millionth as it pertains to kimmel.
Thats putting aside the direct govt conduct re: kimmel and acts of censorship pale in comparison to embedding programs at media companies to directly censor information, including, obviously true but inconvenient political information.
Here is Carr's statement in its totality:
"Frankly, when you see stuff like this, I mean, we can do this the easy way, or the hard way. These companies can find ways to change conduct, to take action, frankly, on Kimmel, or there’s going to be additional work for the FCC ahead.”
People who can't see the parallels there to the Biden administration's public statements are crazy
https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/20/politics/white-house-section-230-facebook
And again, thats putting aside the actual substance of the "twitter files" and related reporting of what happened behind the scenes to act out the censorship. If j&k want to continue to be intentionally misinformed on those materials, that isn't even necessary to understand the govt actions in covid far exceeded that of the kimmel story
It isn't *just* the Kimmel story, though. It's the thousands of people fired for run of the mill political views... it's the justice department turning itself into a weapon of the regime and openly shitting on the first ammendment. It's the DoD doing the same thing.
I don't disagree with you, just thought you were and still are being hyperbolic. But the left's total inability to interact with the reality of its extremely similar if slightly more nuanced/hidden behavior is very maddening, so I can see where it would lead to exaggeration.
Maybe they are softer on Biden's censorship because they took COVID really seriously as a public health crisis and either felt that at least some of the admin's overreaction was understandable/forgiveable, or felt at the time it would save lives.
Not saying I agree with that, but to me that is different from the Trump administration's reaction to Kimmel.
I think someone needs to create a chart comparing and contrasting Biden admin censorship with Trump admin. Then we could all be on the same page about who is worse. I'd get on it but I'm to busy rinsing out a few things.
Seriously, all censorship is bad. Softening your side's malfeasance while inflating the other's solves nothing.
I mean, sure, I think that's right. They didn't have a big issue with the censorship because they may have liked it and thought it was helpful during the pandemic. (Query why there was also less interest in the fact that true speech on covid was censored as well as non-covid censorship efforts under the Biden administration regarding things spuriously cast under the guise of "election integrity", but I digress)
Trump supporters could say that the Kimmel pressure was pressure to tone down political violence by not inflaming tensions with false accusations regarding shooter affiliations, and therefore save lives by toning down rhetoric. I think that argument is largely dumb, but also think that argument is significantly more persuasive than "we have to censor true speech on covid because of the person saying it, it doesn't align with CDC strategy, etc."
But that's just it at the end of the day, free speech is too important to make exceptions based on value judgments on the merits/harm of speech. And I very much dislike the hosts' lack of commitment to free speech in the Biden administration.
Yep. Lots of conservative snowflakes in this group.
Jesse (and to a much lesser extent, Katie) just aren't thoughtful on these political questions. Everything he doesn't like is just "dumb" or "horrible."
But, the Trump administration *is* dumb and horrible — just like Trump apologists.
Yes, the Trump pressure on free speech is worse than anything Biden did. You are deranged to believe otherwise.
Biden was 1000x worse
Cue the tin foil hat music.
It’s incredible and embarrassing that you actually believe this.
Remind me when Kamala said you should rat out your neighbor to the employer? Or said the state would do what it could to take away your livelihood for political opposition?
Under Biden the state fired people for not taking the COVID vaccine so.. again.. huh? And the state didn’t do anything to take away anyone’s livelihood. He expressed his personal support for people getting fired FOR PRAISING AN ASSASSINATION. I assure you, the Biden admin fired people for having otherwise milquetoast conservative views. You simply never heard about it.. your confidence is embarrassing - the delusions of someone who thinks things only start happening as soon as they started paying attention.
Find me the stats on who was fired? And even then surely you cam see that and the assertion that political enemies are terrorists for not being upset one of your sides' demagogues got killed?
Quick rorschach test: was Kimmel "praising" the assassination? Was the guy who said he wouldn't mourn Kirk? Or the EMT who said she couldn't be sad about it?
The issue is that "milquetoast conservative views" in the last few years have included 1, the 2020 election was stolen 2, January 6 was a legitimate protest and not a treasonous act to overthrow an election, 3, covid is a hoax/the covid vaccine will kill you/ any an other act of fuckery, etc. Pressuring social media companies to deplatform accounts spreading what the admin identifies as misinformation isn't great, but threatening to pull the license of a broadcaster because they said make a comment about how MAGA was reacting to Kirk, and mainly because the president has very thin skin and cannot handle criticism is a very different monster. He is asking the justice department to make up allegations about his enemies. He is threatening the tax status of charities he doesn't like. He is acting like the tyrant that you conservatives have been arming yourselves to fight against for decades and now he's your guy?
Whereas nothing can embarass the right and it's totally predictable they would minimize Trump's assault on free speech and inflate Biden's.
The online right gets embarrassed by many things.. some of which I myself find embarrassing but so it goes. I think Katy has touched on this but there’s a lot more open debate and dissent on the right than on the left. Trump gets plenty of criticism - whether it’s over Epstein, bondi sucking, too few deportations, whatever. You guys simple have no theory of mind or awareness of our ecosystem but a delusional sense of confidence that you do. The right understands the left because we’re forced to live in your ecosystem while you can very easily avoid ours.
I find it odd that folks that are so upset about Kimmel didn't bat an eyelash when Charlie Rose was disappeared in 2017 over "allegations". No trial, no clear evidence. Just gone.
Trump’s attacks on free speech are petty and usually immaterial one-offs. They are meant to be out in plain view and to trigger the libs. The Biden admin’s speech interventions were policy-based and calculated to evade notice, to obfuscate, and to placate liberal concerns.
In case it’s not clear, I find the former obnoxious and concerning, and the latter malevolent.
Jesus Christ, who the hell cares? These aren't quantifiable transgressions, the debate over which is "worse" is an exercise in political point-scoring rather than addressing the core of the actual problem. Neither of these things should be happening, period, and the fact that both sides are engaging in it tells me that there's a deeper issue with people writ large not understanding the importance of a robust firewall between the government and mass media. People cheer it on whenever their "side" engages in illiberal, authoritarian behavior and condemn it when the opposition does it.
Maybe instead of crying about "who started it" or "who's worse," everyone should take accountability for the bad behaviors in their own political spheres. Change has to come from within. YOU have to be the change you want to see in your own party. Liberals have to stand against illiberalism on their side of the aisle, and conservatives have to stop enabling authoritarianism as "vengeance," or whatever. Just fucking stop, because if you don't, the cycle will continue to escalate.
I'm also just sick of every single comment section lately having whiners talking about how they couldn't even FINISH the episode because some moderate opinion given by one of the hosts offended their delicate sensibilities. Jesus Christ, just leave if you hate the show so much! Why are you paying for a podcast you apparently can't stand to watch?
The Biden administration tried to stop the spread of medical misinformation during a pandemic.
Trump tried to repress criticism of the government.
If you think the former is worse, I don’t think you understand the concept of censorship.
Always a good reminder how red pilled this audience is. Depressing this is the top comment
I wish these people would just leave. This podcast clearly isn't for them.
Now *this* is the fascism I was looking for!
I'm definitely not a leftist nor a Dem anymore, but I cannot imagine being such a pussy that someone saying "I wish you would leave this voluntary intangible location" would come off as fasciam to me.
JFC, knock the sand out already.
The table I just stubbed my toe on is a fascist, too
It really brings your lebensraum together, though.
Right?? I came here to say that. Trumps lap dog barked. There were no fines. JK is back and the affiliates let him back on. Doesn’t sound like a fascisim to me? It is faaaar worse to shadow pressure companies to remove or censor citizens without recourse. The average you tuber or X denizen doesn’t have the legal resources to fight the government. A good example was Dr Jay Bhattacharya.
Also I think most people were mad because JK implied it was a right winger who shot CK with his strange wording. Classic misinformation on public airwaves.
I find trumps actions next level. I do think Katie and Jessie tried a bit too hard. “Bad things for good reasons” is always the tropish response of the offender.
But having the FCC openly announce they’ll target you is next level from the power incentive implied in asking a favor.
It really is, in the literal sense of literally…..literally unprecedented.
Didn’t turn it off but agree with the sentiment. They absolutely should know better. I rolled my eyes like “are you fucking kidding me?”
I don't love how the biden handled social media during the pandemic, and the backlash ended up causing more harm than the speech they were trying to suppress, but an administration trying to block legitimate misinformation during a crisis is just a little different than an administration giving a mafia style threat to fucking disney because a late night host made a joke the president didn't like. Also, you win because the covid misinformationists have control of our country now and we don't have to take vaccines ever again!
Totally agree!!!!!!!!
Thank god it’s not as bad as shariah law london. I hear they’re shooting people for dropping the haitch in ‘Hertford Hereford and Hampshire Hurricanes hardly happen (prise be the prophet)’
Sorry no way Kimmel came off because he made a Trump joke. I think they mentioned on the fifth column that Kimmel had made 1500 Trump jokes so far this year.
The clip escalated in right wing media because he strongly implied that the Kirk shooter was right wing and the right wing was flexing its cancelling muscles over bad statements in the wake of the Kirk shooting.
other important context:
the corporate overlords, in addition to being cowards, are probably losing money on his show and were close to cancelling it anyway like Colbert was already this year. Temporarily cancelling him and all the associated attention and rallying was probably the best thing for his career right now.
They weren't losing money on the show. the show isn't super profitable, but according to the Town, they weren't losing money on it. Kimmel is the face of NBC - they weren't looking for an excuse to ditch him.
The affiliates are trying to merge, need the FCC to ok the merger, and thus acquiesced to Carr/Trump. Disney initially caved because they didn't want the FCC after them either, but then realized that caving was even worse for their business (and the Disney head did not like the negative publicity he personally was getting from Hollywood) and so caved on the caving.
Either way it is terrible that the head of the FCC personally threatened a broadcaster for airing speech he did not like, speech that does not pass any reasonable standard for censorship.
To play the other side threatening and doing are different things
When stuff like Kimmel happens, or when people get cancelled, I think one of about three things:
1) The subject (Kimmel) probably had already been doing other stuff, and this thing just pushed the employer over the edge. (Low ratings?) The subject just wan't worth the fight.
2) The employer is thin-skinned and weak-spined. Lacking principles and fortitude are widespread traits lately.
3) The government really did put undue pressure on an individual. It can happen--but then I'd expect a lawsuit against the gov't (assuming #2 isn't in play).
None are good, though #1 is probably the most palatable explanations if/when it happens.
Bro getting tired of y’all running cover for leftist horse shit with the good ol’ lines such as, “It’s complicated, it was a weird time, it was foggy, no one really knew what was going on.”
Y’all, and I mean any and all lefty establishment types, fuck up and push absolute nonsense and then years later just shrug and say “Come on guys let’s move on, look what the right’s doing, it’s so much worse! THEY’RE Nazis!”
Or my personal favorite from the last few weeks, “Does it really matter which ideology led to this? Let’s just move on to fixing it.”
This is like last week. I don't understand why people subscribe to a substack they don't like. Do you think posts like this will shake them up and get them to come around to your view?
It's like The Free Press comment section, which is packed with people who don't like the product.
I left DeBoer's substack when it was clear he is an unstable dick.
I joined the Bulwark when they hired Cathy Young. I left when another writer called Andrew Sullivan a Trump supporter.
I left Glenn Loury when he praised Coates and then brought on Tucker Carlson.
It's ok to walk away when you don't like something.
My shorthand for these type of posters is “terrible food and the portions are too small”.
Name of my sex tape.
(I love that. You made me smile!)
"If you disagree with one particular political point the hosts of an internet drama podcast make, you must unsubscribe immediately instead of voicing you objections!"
What do you get out of voicing your objections? I really want to know. Going back to the TFP situation. Does the Moondog post seem like a civil observation?
What do Jesse and Katie "get" for arguing against cancelations they disagree with? It's not like leftist advocacy orgs are going to listen to Blocked and Reported and stop canceling people.
The point of speech isn't always to persuade the people you're talking about. Frequently it's to persuade third parties who are watching the discussion. In this case, the comments here are as much for the other listeners of the podcast as they are for the hosts.
Maybe the original comment was rude, but the idea that the function of a comment section is purely a parasocial thing isn't true.
I point back to my previous post. What was the point of posting something like that? He was trying to persuade third parties on his position? I don't think you think that.
Your description of persuading third parties sounds like a parasocial thing but with other posters.
Counter point: if you don’t like seeing people disagree with K&J, then why don’t you just stop reading the comments section?
People are allowed to disagree. We don’t have to agree with everything K&J say to still enjoy the podcast overall.
Counter counter point. Read the Moondog post and tell me if you think that tone is OK. Or we should just shrug at that kind of thing. I am very proud of the genial public park we have created in the comments section that Katie and Jesse brag about.
Based on listening to many of the podcasts on offer here, there is a trend of extreme, desperate personalities posting extreme, desperate sentiments for attention and when that becomes normalized, the normies flee from that space. I think the best way to avoid that cycle is to snuff it at the start.
the tone captures, in particular, jesse's *shrug* attitude toward right-of-center ppl & their speech being targeted by democratic pols & institutions.
All I can do is point at their 524 episodes and say they have a solid record on standing up for free speech regardless of the political beliefs of those targeted for criticism and/or censure. I think that's what this podcast does. That's what it is.
Andrew Sullivan is definitely not a Trump supporter
I have wondered if because Sullivan despises William Kristol over his unapologetic neocon Iraq history that the Bulwark is ok with making a charge like that.
To be fair to you I am actually going that way. But I’ve been subscribed to them for a while. Years. They were fine during Biden and then their brains deflated again now that Trump is back.
It’s their podcast. They can do what they want. But I am at least entitled by my money to express my opinion of the product. The rest of this episode was fine. I strongly dislike 25% at most of their commentary. The rest is mostly fine. Jumping ship for that seems too much. I just wish they weren’t so quick to jump on ridiculous leftist narratives.
When they were talking about Covid censorship and Katie said "at least that was for a good cause" lol
The Biden laptop fiasco was not even for a "good cause."
The NY Post was banned from Twitter for like…awhile. I remember that.
It was not. The specific link to the original story was blocked for like 12 hours. The Post was never banned.
they locked the post out of their own account for reporting accurate factual information that would harm the democratic candidate.
https://nypost.com/2020/10/30/twitter-backs-down-agrees-to-unlock-posts-account/
This article says 2 weeks.
A good cause? I will have to skip the preliminary talk and go right to the episode which I do more times than I wish I had too….. I try to listen but it’s definitely drone only one POV!
Somewhat unrelated. I am trying really hard to not use these new sub badges to judge commenters.
But it really is funny the number of ~3+ year subscribers that found the podcast during covid and have been around and critical of J&K consistently on topics like covid and the biden administrations censorship regime. There is definitely a cohort of familiar names in my "likes" going back well over two years.
My sense is the audience ideological diversity has steadily decreased over time. And i think we are all worse for it.
Is that what the badges signify? If so we should create a rigid social hierarchy so we can see who’s “right” and who’s “wrong.”
You're at 3 years and 11 months. I think that means I have to defer to you.
Wait does that make me part of the Barpod aristocracy?
I don’t think it’s what the badges mean. Ive been a cousin from the start and I have a grey one
How do you see these badges?
Actually Do you not think that the Biden admin believes its actions re: COVID and social media “misinformation” would protect public health during an emergency, and so might be worth the trade off in terms of freedom of speech?
I personally don’t think it was worth the trade off especially since a lot of what they blocked wasn’t misinformation at all. But certainly slowing the spread of COVID would be a “good cause”, if this actually worked, right?
*Neoliberal/progressive, not leftist. Leftists and Marxists were/are against lockdowns and mandates. Many extreme communists/tankies believe germ theory itself is an anti-proletarian construct meant to thwart free assembly of workers.
It's upsetting that I can't tell if you're joking.
They've literally being saying "It's complicated" since the first episode, it's practically the podcast's catchphrase. You're just getting upset because the nuance doesn't benefit you personally in this case. You are welcome to spend your money somewhere else.
I HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS EPISODE ALL MY LIFE.
Or a few weeks anyway.
I was disappointed. Maybe they were uncomfortable discussing someone in the midst of a psychotic break.
I wanted to hear a discussion about transference (it's not a new phenomenon, Freud wrote about it); the ethical considerations of a platform when it comes to mental illness; why she needed to preface every mention of her therapist by saying "75 yr old"?; and jumping Jehoshaphat, the whole AI advice angle, WHOA, not great; and lastly, what does it say about us that we are all watching this like Tiger King during lockdown?
The number of reaction videos on this story is CRAY, and it's also been covered in other media: LA Times, NBC news, People magazine, etc. which is where you will find this sort of analysis.
The sad thing is that it's probably going to have a very negative effect on her life. Obviously doing what she did to her psychiatrist was really bad, and could have ruined his career, but it's pretty clear that she was having a psychotic break rather than making it up to get attention or get back at him for some slight. It would be reasonable to keep this incident in mind when dealing with her, but she doesn't deserve to have her life ruined over it. If she were in the EU, she could sue to have it removed but that's not going to happen here in the US.
I guess that's a long-winded way of saying that even though she did something terrible, I feel a bit sorry for her and hope she's eventually able to get her life back on track.
I disagree that she doesn't deserve to have her life ruined over this. She tried to ruin her psychiatrist's life, after all.
I agree. AI and social media did her no good.
This is a very strange episode to listen to, personally.
RIP to the racist neighbor
yeah, this made me sad. I was slightly invested in subplot around the gay magician son, though.
I'm touched by Katie/Janna's impulse to care for the aged around them. After spending years caring for my mother, I find myself being more present with and interested in the senior community members I live near. The elderly are so often neglected, and even though Katie (rightfully, in my view) disagreed with his racism, I'm glad she could help make his final years slightly less lonely.
There are quite a few aging racists where I live (and some younger ones, too), including an uncle of mine. I always try to keep in mind that alot of these people were hurt terribly in their youth by engineered events and policies meant to stoke discord and mistrust between groups of (mostly poor) people. Some of them grow with age and disavow the racism taught to them earlier, but others become more entrenched. I like to try and lead by example without being too preachy. My dad went from being genuinely racist in his teens and early 20s (using the n word and the k word, etc) and it took working alongside Spanish and African-American people one factory job for the baked-in neighborhood racism to leave him. It's not at all hopeless.
Caring for this man is really what it's ALL about. You and I (anyone, and I) agree on 98% of the world's stuff--and the other 2% doesn't erase you or me, doesn't diminish either of our humanity, and doesn't qualify either of us for anything less than polite, helpful care of each other.
Give someone else a hand everyone once in a while, and don't worry about what they think/believe/love/hate.
Your actions of love and care will win more arguments than your words ever will.
I feel a bit sad, he was such a presence on the show, I feel like he was my racist neighbor. Clearly he was in a lot of pain, sickness, and filled with vitriol I hope he has found peace.
Rest In Power ✊🏻
RIP in power!
He would have loved how she pronounces "Nicaraguan."
REST IN POWER you mean (hey if people can say that for a cop killing commie then it works here too)
SAY. HIS. NAME.
“Racist neighbor!”
Janna wasn’t there to save him 😢
Ahh this was my tip, guys! I'm so stoked
I think, by BARPOD bylaws, this makes you our Queen?
Very cool!! Congratulations!! Also, really interesting subject!!
I think Katie and Jackoff missed the mark on the Kimmel show segment. The right didn't have their panties in a wad because of the Trump joke. The Orange one may have been pissed.....but most of the right was upset because Kimmel emphatically said the shooter was one of the MAGA tribe. By the time he said that....it was clear that the killer was pretty left wing with a trans partner. He never corrected himself or apologized for that gaslighting.
The left is like "why is the right always mad when I piss on them and tell them its raining?" I don't understand why they want to fight me?
Didn’t he say they were trying to prove he was anything but one of theirs?
Which isn’t the same as saying he was MAGA
THANK YOU. It’s like people listened to the clip and then filled in a blank that wasn’t there. That’s been driving me crazy.
Ah, so we’re mind-reading experts now.
Yup. He didn’t say what was claimed. Kinda pathetic a BARpod reader should be out there making shit up.
If he didn’t mean that, why didn’t he agree to clarify? Instead, he refused, planned to double down, and was taken off air. And even when put back on air, he apologized for people getting offended. He never clarified that the shooter was not MAGA.
Are you honestly asking why didn't he say he didn't say what he didn't say?
He didn't say what has been alleged here. End of.
Because that would actually be funny. Suddenly everybody is looking at the obvious clues and claiming, "Nope, not ours".
Cool, just making things up.
Using it to make things up.
Perhaps, but does that change anything? Worth yanking him off the air for?
It clarifies why he was yanked. If he had returned with the correct info and apologized for trying to slime the right…like he does every night, it might have turned out differently.
A pathetic apology capitulating to MAGA knuckledraggers would have truly been a cancel-worthy crime.
He's a late-night TV comedian. He has no moral or legal or contractual obligation to do any of that.
Why exactly does he need to apologize?
It's no wonder Jimmy Kimmel was taken off the air. There was a large business deal going on behind the scenes between something like the parent company of ABC and another entity. If several hundred million is on the line and a callus punk employee threatens it, swift discipline is absolutely appropriate.
The parent company of ABC? You mean Disney? What are you talking about?
I have no idea what I'm talking about tbh.
Honest question: So what?
10/10 quintessential BarPod episode. Narcissistic online idiots who used to get away with this stuff and now it’s super cringe. Keep the the banter at the start! My favorite part actually. Maybe I don’t have friends where I can talk openly about this stuff :-( i don’t need to agree with them but openly talking is refreshing.
I think this episode really hit the format they should stick to 99% of the time.
Brief rundown of culture war/news touchpoints. Main thing about something mostly unrelated to that.
I was cringing, shouting, and debating turning off the episode multiple times because I couldn't believe this person was real.
Classic barpod 10/10
I had an ex who would automatically interpret almost everything anyone else said or did in the most negative light possible. This Kendra woman is clearly the same way.
It is stereotypical BPD, but there is no medical treatment for BPD and it's not like psychiatrists have some special power to avoid the consequences of this terrible condition.
How is there "no comparison" between what the Biden admin did and the Trump admin are doing? Because the Biden admin did it privately?
The Biden administration was REGULARLY pressuring private companies to censor people for legal speech, and many of those people weren't that prominent. Alex Berenson was able to fight back, but many people couldn't. In the case of Kimmel, he's very prominent, he'll be fine.
Both administrations are wrong to jaw-bone private companies for legal speech. Your bias leads you to give the Dems more of a pass, for instance "they were trying to save lives during covid" (I'm not saying that's exactly what Jesse and Katie think). The supposedly benevolent intentions of the Biden admin (I'm not sure how benevolent it is when much of the speech they were attacking was both legal AND not even untrue) is irrelevant. It's wrong and doing it privately doesn't change anything, it's probably worse.
A government which is so sure they're doing the right thing that they silence any argument to the contrary is a uniquely terrifying thing. Whatever the intent, many of the COVID policies turned out to be pointless if not actively harmful, and probably some of these mistakes could have been avoided if there had been more room for dissent from the start. (To be fair this is not only an issue of government censorship, but more generally partisan groupthink and social media mob rule.)
There was a whole apparatus setup to censor speech , FCC chairman saying nonsense doesn’t feel the same
So... textbook transference turned grift.
Having worked in the forensic behaviour space for quite some time, I've come across a couple of Kendras before. One particular case was so terrible, I watched it ruin a clinician’s life in real time. After, I shit you not, only two sessions with him, this colourful individual spent the next 20+ years stalking and obsessing over him. Clinically fascinating but horrifying on a human level.
Disappointing but not surprising that this grifter is being enabled by her followers. I wonder if we’re now going to see a surge of transference stories, similar to the DID self-diagnosis social contagion?
from the first clip, I was like, yep, erotic transference and a cluster b disorder. Complete inability to perceive internal emotional states as separate from actual reality.
My therapist is the first person I have encountered in 5 years who isn't immediately put off and alienated by my freak show personality.
They must love me!
No they are just used to dealing with crazy people while keeping a straight face...
I love you, Martin.
Do I smell a DID transference psychiatrist polycule crossover?!
(I restrained myself from adding "furry" into the mix)
Reading that sentence made me laugh and also want to take a screwdriver to my retina. New feeling unlocked.
Katie, please please please link to the trans blind Jewish cancer tiktok, I'll never ever criticize you all for anything ever again if you give us this 🙏
Unlike Katie, I think this woman absolutely is a fabulist and virtually none of this happened.
I actually think the other one mentioned is likely too to some extent. The "Reesa Teesa" one. Out of curiosity I read a detailed summary of the specific claims, and the timelines simply don't line up on a lot of it. Sounds like a lot of it happened, but there is significant fuckery in the timeline going on. Sometimes in the narrative there are like 6 or 8 weeks of events happening in like 10 days. Which means someone is crafting the story a bit or changing the order of events.
Or, potentially, mental people are unreliable narrators (but necessarily intentionally or maliciously so).
the most unrealistic part for me was that the psychiatrist never tried to prescribe her antipsychotics. or kept prescribing her adderall. seems like his red flags would've been going off much sooner and if it is even a little true, he's terrible at his job
I feel like Jimmy Kimmel and many of the censorship right now of the media is really a story of media consolidation and the government not instituting antimonopoly and antitrust legislation. I also think in turn that means that this is about government corruption, but I think that’s the bigger issue that we have generally.
Ah I see I thought it was a reply to another message. Apologies. That weird line linking replies was just a reflection. Probably a dark reflection of a dark universe.
No problem. That makes a lot of sense.
Sorry, uhm… not agreeing nor disagreeing, but, relevance?
They talked about Jimmy Kimmel at the beginning and about his cancellation and I was just thinking about this in terms of why these companies aren’t standing up to the government which has been the salient issue. we have all these billionaires hanging out with the government and owning every platform that we use.
Did you listen to the pod?
I was right in the middle of watching a video about this chick when this popped up. I'm trying to not let empathy creep in to my perception of this gal, it's ruining the best internet spectacle we've had in a while.
Keep in mind she had tens of thousands of people telling her she was delusional basically from the jump, and she maintained her story in the face of that.
It's the classic lolcow dynamic. Kiwi Farmers call it "white knighting". You first get exposed to Chris Chan or whoever and you think "Man, people are being really mean to this guy! He just needs some good advice and a friend to hear him out". But after a couple of years you realize that he's had many, many people try to help him in that way over the years, and he has instead continued to seek out the audiences that enable his self-destructive tendencies. You get frustrated with this, post some mean comments, and the next guy comes along to repeat the cycle by calling YOU an asshole.
Kendra definitely has the lolcow tendency to double down in the face of opposition; when you're correct, it's a virtue, but when you're wildly wrong, it's a personality flaw.
My big brother is like this now. We've given up on fixing him or reasoning with him, and now just want to see what new low he finds next!