169 Comments
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Jacob Deronda's avatar

tip of the hat to whoever made that POTS jibe, I lol'd.

FYI Postural Orthostatic Tachycardia Syndrome is kind of like Ehlers Danlos Syndrome/autism/gender dysphoria, in that it is both a) a real diagnosable affliction and b) an easy self-diagnosis for mentally unwell people whose real diagnosis is factitious disorder/illness anxiety disorder. It's easy for people in the medical field to forget that this isnt universally known.

EDIT: I just want to emphasize, in case it wasn't clear, that I have empathy for people (mostly women) who are wrongfully dismissed as fakers by lazy and incompetent healthcare providers. This is one of those issues where Both Sides (i.e. the illness fakers and the shitty unprofessional medical professionals) are real, and it's very difficult to know what's what in any particular case if you weren't there. I was laughing at the POTS comment because I have sometimes had my already-slim time and energy wasted by patients who were faking, consciously or unconsciously, and it feels good to blow off steam. FWIW I always give patients the benefit of the doubt because professionalism is more important than being right.

Martin Blank's avatar

The problem with vague illnesses/syndromes is even when they are real, they are catnip to the hypochondriacs and malingerers out there.

Cait's avatar

POTS actually has quite specific criteria, there aren't many vagaries about it.

Martin Blank's avatar

Meh yes and no.

“I have an abnormal racing heartbeat in odd situations which mainly involved standing” is a pretty specific symptom.

“I don’t feel well doing X Y Z and get super anxious and feel like my heart is racing” is something almost anyone can claim.

Combine that with it not generally having a specific physical cause and it is pretty attractive for malingerers.

It’s one of those things where it is like “No one getting chased by a tiger has POTS”.

Cait's avatar
May 12Edited

It does have a physical cause. COVID caused it in my sister. She never once had it before her 2020 infection. It was diagnosed via tilt table test. And anxiety is not a POTS symptom. You don't really know what you are talking about, but you think you do because you want to think people like my sister don't exist or got it psychosomatically. I know what happened to her, I saw it with my own eyes.

Your tiger analogy makes no sense. COVID didn't exist when people were getting chased by Tigers. It's like saying nobody chased by Tigers ever got radiation poisoning from x rays. The technology didn't exist back then.

VesnaVK's avatar

I get proactively annoyed when anyone starts their comment with "meh." They might as well start out with, "The thing you care about is so unimportant as to be beneath my notice, and by the way I know more about it than you do."

Cait's avatar
May 12Edited

Yes, it's incredibly rude and dismissive, & ironically, perhaps indicative of social contagion via too much "Simpsons" on tv??

Lana Diesel's avatar

The Ehlers-Danlos thing drives me nuts. Somehow every anxious lesbian and internet health paranoiac has this allegedly very rare disease.

Brendan Keen's avatar

An ex had POTS … Ehlers Danlos … AND mast cell activation syndrome. What are the odds?

Cait's avatar

If she had COVID, pretty good actually at least for MCAS and POTS.

Blink's avatar

They usually get clumped together! I work with someone convinced she has this trifecta :,)

Walker's avatar

As I understand it, the tricky thing with POTS is that it is largely a diagnosis of exclusion (e.g. we can’t find something specific that’s causing your symptoms, and those symptoms are pretty general, but you’re having them, so this is the label) AND it mimics regular old deconditioning, which happens when you stop exerting yourself because you feel ill, and thus it becomes self-perpetuating. You stay sick because you feel sick, essentially. Dehydration causes similar symptoms, too. Combine those common states with highly-strung young women who are mentally not in a good place for whatever reason, and suddenly it’s tempting to believe there’s a physical cause for all those problems, when it’s actually correlation and not causation. If you’re a stressed-out high-achieving perfectionist, it’s tempting to have a way out that can be framed as an organic disability.

VesnaVK's avatar

Menieres is like this, or at least this description reminds me of the diagnosis. It seems to be a name they gave to a cluster of horrible symptoms (not the same symptoms as POTS — that's not the similarity) and they have no idea whether the sufferers are actually suffering from the same condition.

Ullr's avatar
May 10Edited

And there was a HUGE uptick in POTS patients along with the Long Covid cases , though I’d be curious to see the tend lines in these vs EDS and Gender stuff. POTS seems to be less of a big deal lately, though hyper mobility is still huge.!

Cait's avatar
May 10Edited

COVID can cause POTS. My sister developed it after her 2020 infection. It was missed for awhile because of the initial cardiac arrest she suffered 4 weeks after infection, and we were STILL gaslit that it was "probably anxiety" until diagnosed by UPENN. It's insane to me that people would rather believe in social contagion than viral contagion. Whatever helps you sleep at night, I guess.

The more that I think about it, it's odd that the letter writer is essentially doing the inverse of self diagnosis, he or she is--online, in an online forum, which this place is, deigning to self-diagnose people with self diagnosing simply because he/she does not like the looks of them. They have no idea whether these people have a chronic illness or not. In this way, he/she is more like those they decry than not. Very ironic.

Ullr's avatar
May 11Edited

I’m so sorry your sister suffered so much. I don’t mean to make light of anything so serious.

The following isn’t meant to be irritating, but POTS and all the Dysautonomia constellation of related factors/ symptoms seems to so vaguely related and scary. Being more specific seems more helpful.

Anything called a Syndrome is something not understood. Doctors are guessing. It’s comforting to have a reason, a group of symptoms altogether. It would be great to have this figured out to be treatable by electrolytes etc.. I have lots of friends who have comfort in syndrome diagnoses, but I don’t know if it’s helped their overall wellness or give them hope for improvement.

Honestly just reading the description - it applies to everything. Especially if one is Jewish!

https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/6004-dysautonomia

Calling symptoms of a heart issue anxiety is sadly a classic women’s health misdiagnosis. But we insist that everything is anxiety these days, not surprising doctors also overly reliant on it as a cause of symptoms.

Again, sincere well wishes to your sister and her health care experiences. That sounds so frustrating

James Kabala's avatar

How would that apply to Down Syndrome? Is that vestigial terminology from before we knew about chromosomes?

Jacob Deronda's avatar

Please see the update to my comment. I was speaking flippantly and I'm sorry that happened to your sister. Y'all deserved better.

VesnaVK's avatar

I was excited at first when they said POTS because I knew it stood for Plain Old Telephone Service. What today people call a landline.

Chris Bozeman's avatar

Katie, I’ve been listening to you and Jesse since Episode 1.

You sound the same.

Ms No's avatar

The only thing that sounds different for me is that the whole pod is a fraction sped up, it drives me crazy, I must have changed something in my settings and I have no idea how to change it back 😬

JorgeGeorge's avatar

Chris Bozeman: Same here!

Dee's avatar

I may be hallucinating, but hasn't Katie always had a slight lisp? Maybe I'm just trying to make myself feel better about my own (VERY FEMININE AND CUTE AND DAINTY) lisp

Benjy Shyovitz's avatar

It comes and goes. And I’m sorry, but there’s no way her Invisalign is responsible for “head funge.”

Dayraynay's avatar

Ran to the comments to say this. In fact when she said “a new lisp” I took it as an additional lisp including the one we all know and love.

Greg's avatar

Came here just to post this exact question.

James Kabala's avatar

Whether or not it would be qualified as a lisp, I definitely do not hear any change.

Theodric's avatar

Maybe but you can definitely hear something new. She may be exaggerating it on purpose though.

Ms No's avatar

She has, and it's a nice lisp. I would miss it if it went away

Bernt's avatar

Fishback is perfect barpod character. The combination of internet brain rot and narcissism that infects everything he touches

Archibald.'s avatar

What kind of a name is Fishback anyway? What an odd name.

Walker's avatar

I’m guessing German. “Back” is likely the same as “Bach;” a stream full of fish.

Aaron's avatar

It sounds like a slur for ... Idk the Portuguese or something?

ajlr's avatar

The “Byron Donalds is a slave” part is taking me out wtf

Xaide's avatar

What could be edgier than making jokes about slavery. Because Byron is black, and black people were slaves, get it?

He should be forced to tell that joke to an older black person who has put up with all the shit they are gonna put up with in this life and who will dress him down so intensely with such "i am both furious and disappointed in you" energy that all he'll be able to do is cry and keep repeating he's sorry.

Martin Blank's avatar

Honestly if he just dropped dead tomorrow the world would be a better place.

Ran's avatar
May 9Edited

The story about Fishback's claim to have been "Head of Macro", is a bit more nuanced than presented in the podcast, in a kind of fun way. Greenlight did in fact sometimes present Fishback As Head of Macro. As it turns out, it is common to present junior people as "Head of X" to customers, to make them feel like someone senior is assigned to them. Fishback's claim is still bullshit, but it is rooted in standard hedge fund bullshit.

Source: https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2024-05-20/the-endless-shrimp-investigation

It is paywalled, here are some excerpts:

From Matt Levine Bloomberg Column Money Stuff, May 20th 2024:

> Head of Macro

> [During] my time at an investment bank, [...] I was the head of a lot of businesses, and so was everyone else:

> Everyone is the head of something, or at least co-head. Global Head of Cardboard Packaging Investment Banking, or Americas Head of Exotic Volatility Trading in Stocks Starting with ‘P,’ or whatever. And many people are the head of two things, or three things, or most commonly an indeterminate number of things.

> I cannot stress enough how important the head-of-something thing is. As a fairly junior vice president I would regularly go into client meetings with some senior relationship banker whom I had just met and who had no real idea of who I was, to talk about some weird derivative trade, and the banker would always introduce me to the client as like “this is Matt, he’s our global head of” whatever the weird trade was. … These headships were not, like, written down anywhere. No vote was taken, no corporate resolutions passed to make me the head of whatever [... ] the client would be happier and the relationship banker would be happier and I would be happier if we all agreed that I was the bank’s leading expert and fully empowered manager of whatever weird thing I was pitching.

...

> At a hedge fund with a dozen analysts, probably each analyst will have her own fairly large coverage universe. If you’re the analyst covering consumer retail companies, then you are also the “head of consumer retail.” Who else could it be? You are the head of a team of one, but that’s a pretty common experience in the financial industry.

...

> I cannot not mention James Fishback and Greenlight Capital Inc., who are suing each other about whether or not Fishback was Greenlight’s “head of macro.” Here is Fishback’s lawsuit from last October, saying that he was:

...

> For example, on May 11, 2023, [Greenlight Chief Operating Officer Daniel] Roitman, in securing an invitation for Mr. Fishback to join a private call with [...], emailed Heather Robertson, a Senior Manager of the GLG Group the following: …

> “Heather — can you sign James Fishback for this? He’s our head of macro here. Copying him to the email.” …

...

> Fishback’s complaint [...] does not seem to mention how many other people were on the macro team that he headed. I have a guess! Anyway I assume both sides are right: Surely Greenlight did not have a “head of macro,” and surely Greenlight did go around saying that Fishback was it.

Martin Blank's avatar

Yeah lots of industries do this. I had one job where I was told to make up the most prestigious sounding title I cared to.

I had another place where I did maybe 30 hours of consulting a year and they put me on their website as a "director" and "senior leadership".

If have had several places claim me as employees and given me fake titles when bidding work or communicating with clients when I only did a bit of 1099 work for them. Consulting is weird.

grufinprog's avatar

“Chief Technical Officer” sounded better than “Only Technical Employee” I guess

Alphonse's avatar

Not as cool as Chief Tactical Officer (Weapons Div.)

Jackson's avatar

Lol this is fantastic.

Like there should be a comedy skit on this. "Hey, YOU can't make up bullshit titles unless we say you can make up bullshit titles and you definitely can't keep the bullshit title once we say we're done with your bullshit."

JorgeGeorge's avatar

Ran: Must be hard to keep all the business cards straight.....

Martin Blank's avatar

I was sent a pack of 500 business cards with a super fancy title by a firm I did like 7 hours of work for once. Really nice ones too. I still have them on my desk.

Noah Stephens's avatar

Have you seen Industry on HBO?

Ran's avatar

Have not! What made you bring it up?

Noah Stephens's avatar

It follows the new hires at a London investment firm. It shows a lot of the new hires going on client meetings and the senior staff figuring out how to introduce them to the client :)

Crabbbbb People's avatar

Who’s gonna tell Katie that she’s always had a lisp?

Joe's avatar

Florida man here. Fishback has very little support and he won't get close to the governor's mansion, thankfully.

AXL's avatar

Speaking of debate, does anyone remember this infuriating episode of radiolab? https://radiolab.org/podcast/debatable-2205/transcript

VesnaVK's avatar

Thanks for the link to this. I used to love Radiolab so much. Thoughts: I don't believe that the room fell silent because a group of black kids walked in. I don't believe that they got called the N word. I think that Scott character gave up his soul when he decided to vote for a team that didn't engage with the topic of the debate. I notice Ryan Wash seems to feel compelled to disagree with Robert Krulwich on any point, just on principle.

Martin Blank's avatar

TLDR? I used to love that show but super soured on it.

Andy Duvall's avatar

Yes, this is also the first thing I thought of when they brought up debate.

AXL's avatar

It was so early in the whole woke thing and I didn’t know what to make of it. Other than that it made me equal parts confused and angry.

Kevin Sullivan's avatar

Very nerdy and pedantic point.

Saying that his support is largely from the youth is not the same as saying the youth support him.

I'm not saying Groypers aren't a problem and there aren't too many of them (clearly there are), but it's also a very tiny sliver of people. Also, even among Groypers, 99% of them are too chickenshit to actually say anything about anyone of a different when out and about in the real world and interacting with people.

That's good. We want social shame about being racist. And I don't mean the legitimate arguments on the margins, I mean things like "he's a slave" and his reasoning being "he's a slave" edgelord stuff.

But yeah, I think he really just needs a punch to the nose from someone on the right. The tribal victim shit only works when it's coming from outside the tribe.

Bernt's avatar

Is Katie looks maxing?

Anna's avatar

pre pandemic parents in my local fb group were complaining some kids were coming home from school crying, upset by all the pain their inherent racism has caused (Massachusetts)

Shana Naugle's avatar

that is seriously f’kd up.

TK's avatar

Neither Jesse nor Katie remembered about Boyle v. Capistrano, which has gone to the Supreme Court. It's the one about whether a first-grader should be suspended from school and banned from recess for making a kid drawing including sunny skies, rainbows and the phrase "black lives matter" which she had just been taught in class from a book read aloud that day, and giving it to a classmate who was black.

Anna's avatar

OMG I just read about it, the kid wrote “any life” under blm and they took 2 weeks of recess away. First grader, wtf!!

TrackerNeil's avatar

The Republican Party really has created a welcoming environment for charlatans like Fishback, which is scary because about 50% of the time, Americans will elect them. The days when I thought Americans wouldn't vote for obvious kooks, cranks and self-seekers passed in 2024, when Donald Trump garnered the majority of the national vote. I'm not sure how we deal with this problem, but I suspect that The Donald is not the last obviously unfit candidate who will secure the GOP nomination for president.

Tyler's avatar

I'm willing to bet money that Trump is a "one-off" the likes of whom will never be seen again.

Even JD Vance doesn't have the crazy temperament, bluster and brashness of Trump. (And his children are too young to get involved in crypto scams.)

TrackerNeil's avatar

I mostly agree with you; Trump is, as they say, sui generis. Or so I hope.

Archibald.'s avatar

Agree that kooks and cranks are in ascendancy in politics since Super Kook Trump went down his escalator. But, don’t point only to the Republicans as the primary source of such characters. The Democrats have Herr Totenkopf running for the Senate in Maine. The caliber of person who runs god office in the US has gone off a cliff.

TrackerNeil's avatar

When a Democratic Trump emerges and wins high office, I'll agree. Until then, I'm of the opinion that Democratic kooks are mostly kept in their pens.

DG Price's avatar

How high? The Senate is supposed to be the grandest and highest chamber in our federal government….

TrackerNeil's avatar

Sadly, there's nothing high or grand about the Senate these days, not when it confirms nominees like Kash Patel and RFK.

DG Price's avatar

Well, I suppose there’s nothing all that high about the presidency given who the American people choose to do the job.

President Piker 2036! (After Don Jr.)

TrackerNeil's avatar

Oh, I am sure Scott Baio will run in 2032.

Archibald.'s avatar

You make a valid point. Trump’s Republican Party is a gathering of wackos, that the Dems can’t equal.

jalapeño's avatar

55 comments and 50 of them are about how Katy always had a lisp and we like it

David Tooley's avatar

ithaca NY schools definitely teach white guilt in both public and private schools.

Dayraynay's avatar

Not everything in the schools is going to be made public or have an established court case. In my own child’s school there was an incident that is probably not unique: black student did a funny thing/movement. White student mimicked him making the donkey Kong arm movements, like the meme. Black student threw a book at white student, hitting student in the face. Black student was sent to the principal’s office. No one was punished. Principal is a white woman. There is no prior animosity between the 2 students. They are in the same group chats, they game together. So what did we learn today class? Physical violence is condoned against white students. It is no mystery why someone like Fishback might be popular.

Martin Blank's avatar

Literally the first week of middle school a black kid cornered my son in the bathroom and said if he didn't give him all his money he would tell the authorities he had called him a racial slur. Like week 1.

Luckily he smartly went right to the principal's office himself and reported what happened and so didn't get in trouble.

Dayraynay's avatar

Woah. Glad he handled it well. These are not isolated incidents. An inevitable outcome when tokenized groups are empowered with impunity.