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Midwest Molly's avatar

The “Read the room” guy pissed me off. He was saying that they like the fiction and anyone trying to tell the truth needs to shut up.

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myrna loy's lazy twin's avatar

That and The whole “give it a rest. Sure it’s not true but the untruth is important to people” really get to me. Is it really better for people to believe that they’re in much greater danger than they actually are? Or that their neighbors hate them will assault them given the chance? I don’t think so and I don’t think it’s good for society

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Martin Blank's avatar

Yeah this is what gets me. It is not better to live in some world you think is some dangerous bigoted hellscape. Especially when it isn't.

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Not Sam Harris's avatar

To be fair, the 90’s were another era and being assaulted was a regular occurrence for me in highschool. For something like that to happen today is would be fucked up but in 1998 it was a reasonable conclusion to jump to

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myrna loy's lazy twin's avatar

Yeah, it was a way worse time to be gay. The religious right was always saying horrible things and pushing terrible legislation against gay rights. I was in high school in the '90's too. One of my best friends was an out lesbian and several other girls threatened to beat her up if she looked them in the wrong way. And this was in the northeast, which was more liberal than most of the US. It was not a good time to be gay; it was better than the '80's but that's a pretty low bar.

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Not Sam Harris's avatar

Oh yeah I knew Meghan

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Keegan's avatar

I think most people operate this way, whether they admit it or not. Those of us who value truth over fitting in are an odd and lonely bunch.

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Skull's avatar

I never wanted to think something like "The truth is most important to me" because it felt like such a cunty, condescending thing to believe, surely the truth is important to everyone, we just interpret it differently. I believed this through college, way past when I should know better, because to think otherwise would just be self-important.

I no longer think that anymore. Truth is, to an utterly demoralizing degree, just not that important to some people

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Keegan's avatar

In the evolutionary ancestral environment, in-group cohesion was a matter of life and death, whereas having true beliefs about events that weren't in your immediate sphere of experience was basically irrelevant. Caring about truth over fitting in is pretty unnatural, and might just indicate that we have defective social skills (something I've been hearing since kindergarten).

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jojoZ's avatar

I wouldn’t go too deep into this type of thinking.

Getting along with the group was important to survival, obviously, but so was innovation. For that to work reality-based thinking is required. Both conformity and non-conformity exist in humans as adaptive strategies which explains why both still exist today in each of us to greater or lesser extents

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Steve's avatar

I agree. What you’re saying is, those who don’t value objectivity and reason and truth are further down on the evolutionary scale. And I agree with you.

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jojoZ's avatar

I would argue that both conformity and anti-conformity existing in a balance is the evolutionary stable strategy that humans have come up with.

Enough anti-conformity to come up with new solutions to problems, enough conformity to

Make sure that good ideas stick.

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Skull's avatar

Oh I'm well aware at this point how defective I am. I knew for a long time I was different but I didn't want to think that's the reason I care about truth so much.

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Midwest Molly's avatar

Do you think that’s why we’re a good gang here? Because we generally care more about truth than tribalism? Or is that too self regarding?

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Keegan's avatar

I think it is a reason why I get along with people here. Even when we disagree passionately, I get the sense that most people are legitimately trying to get closer to the truth rather than scoring points for their "team". Whether that's good or bad in a general sense depends on who you ask, I guess.

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Brilliantly Oblivious's avatar

From the movie The Man who Shot Liberty Valance-“ When the legend becomes fact, print the legend."

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Blink's avatar

I feel like it’s an argument that works when you tell your young cops that the dog has gone to a farm upstate. But in this way?

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Skull's avatar

Last time I told my young cops that, I got three tickets. I don't even think that's legal.

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Blink's avatar

Damn Substack app for not letting me correct myself and damn you twice for being quick and clever!

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Skull's avatar

Isn't it annoying when you catch your mistake before someone else but they get the comment out first? Sorry about that! It was too tempting.

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