The thing with Dylan...I mean, it really is a pastiche of being a woman. It's a grift. So get that bag etc., whatever. But I would guess a fair few trans people just trying to get along aren't too happy about the backlash.
I also think where it starts to piss a lot of people off who would not otherwise bother, is when the pastiche starts to feel like mockery. And the sports bra video really seems like that, whether intended or not. It's the ridiculous prancing around, the rictus grin, the almost falling over. I have a 13 year old neice big into sport, I am constantly ferrying her around for matches and tournaments and training. I love it and she gets a lot out of it. But let me tell you, that age group of girls are so so so conscious of their bodies, of actually needing sports bras, of worrying about having a period accident while playing, etc. Nike really could do girls a solid and you know, pick someone who actually needs a bra and that girls/women can relate to, rather than whatever that video was trying to be.
Ehhh... I gotta disagree with Katie. I don't think Dylan radiates joy or positivity. Every bit feels extremely fake and performative. If I wanted to listen to someone aggressively pretending to be happy I'd call my sister in law.
“The insult for women comes not from the fact that Mulvaney is given vast sums of money or attention, but that he is given it whilst performing an insulting version of what a woman is or how she experiences the world from birth. Mulvaney has avoided the many perils of “being a girl”, because he was safely behind the shield of being a boy — and a wealthy one at that. Mulvaney has a very privileged background of successful financier male ancestors. Nothing says patriarchy more clearly than a man being offered huge sums of money by companies to pretend to be a woman, whilst actual women sit at home fretting how to feed their children during an economic crisis. A man “womanning” is feted, whilst a woman at times barely survives the experience.”
And
“Mulvaney breezes through his videos with a permanent rictus grin. The subconscious irritation women feel at this stems from the very real experience of our female socialisation. From the time we are commanded to smile as toddlers and for the million times afterwards, women are aware that our “smile” is an expectation, a command and a danger. If we forget to smile, men who are complete strangers will remind us. If we refuse, we may regret it. If a woman stops smiling, she can be accused of having “resting bitch face”, and she has failed in her duty to please and humour men. When Mulvaney performs this forced joy apparently emanating from “being a girl”, women feel the lie through to our bones, because we have lived with the reality.
It's interesting that Katie emphasizes that complaints about Dylan Mulvaney are coming from conservatives whose views are suspect. In the U.K. there are a lot of feminists who complain about this sort of thing--like the absurdity of Nike marketing sports bras to people without breasts--and they are very eloquent about it. I would love to hear a discussion of these people, who are much more interesting than the people issuing death threats. There's a video of Germaine Greer making the rounds and she is very convincing when she complains that Mulvaney and similar people are adopting gender stereotypes of femininity rather than the true feminine. As she points out, giving birth is the quintessential female act, and it is neither pretty nor feminine. It was a long time ago that I first noticed that drag queens were not at all like women, but were a kind of parody. Some find it inspiring and others find it offensive.
Matt Walsh is a prick, but there’s truth in that nasty tirade. Few if any people will ever regard Dylan Mulvaney as a woman in the same way they do, say, Taylor Swift or Kamala Harris. Ditto Lia Thomas. Even most people who say the right things will be pretending to some degree.
What bothers me about Mulvaney's invitation to the White House, more than the eternal gender war in which Mulvaney is a bit player, is that it's example umpty-seven of how the President is being guided by the sort of staff and/or grandchildren who think that what happens on TikTok is what matters.
We have several very current and recently past examples of US senators being steered by staff long past the senators' ability to make their own decisions. That's bad enough. I don't look forward to the possibility of spending the next presidential term with a POTUS who's either decreasingly capable of or unwilling to do his job. It seems more and more likely that that's what's ahead, though.
I think he (Elon) is really mad about his kid becoming trans. And I think if you take that as your starting point everything else makes sense. Even if he would deny that I don’t know that I’d believe him. I’d light $44 billion in fire with no plan to go after the people I interpreted as hurting my kid. Maybe his kid has been trans forever but it’s hard to not pretend there isn’t a weird cult energy in the world that says being a man is bad and the best way to find forgiveness for that sin is to be a woman. That’s not explicit anywhere but if all the pressure is “hey, this is bad” and “we will celebrate you over here” that drives some people to change.
I do get the sense Dylan, for instance, chose being trans more than being trans chose her. In contrast it’s obvious Dylan didn’t choose to be gay. I think this is the thing people get upset about. If you’re trans because you’ve had this irresistible voice inside of you your whole life telling you that you should be the opposite gender, okay. Happy to respect whatever you need me to call you. If you become trans because of what I think as high pressure sales tactics, like you’re getting tricked into buying a timeshare, I don’t think I’m doing right by you to go along with it. I wouldn’t insert myself into that spot unless I knew someone very well, though.
Slightly off topic: while Dylan exudes sweetness, and his shtick as a woman is annoying at best, it’s the insanity of activists ready to rip Riley apart that is so horrifying. This isn’t a conservative-liberal thing. It’s impossible to replace women with men but the mob is ready to stage a revolution over it. Respecting biology is at stake, much as physics in the time of Galileo. This time the church is the trans activist mob.
I disagree with Katie and Jesse that Matt Walsh is being a bully when he observes that Dylan has removed what’s masculine without adding what’s feminine. I think this is an important point to make-- a feminist point. Physically, femininity is not simply the absence of masculinity; the idea that women are simply neutered men is an ancient and wholly sexist conceptualization of the female body. To the extent that Dylan presents femininity this way, he reinforces this sexist understanding of women’s bodies.
I doubt Walsh specifically intended to make a feminist argument, but he did. It’s an important and principled critique of Dylan’s performance, not “bullying,” IMO.
All of the gender critical people that actually HATE trans people, which there are a lot, are overshadowing the well-intentioned gender critical people that just have understandable concerns for women’s rights and problems related to youth gender medicine.
I think it's interesting that Katie and Jessie immediately recognized Ollie London's grift but not Dylan Mulvany's. Those two are two side of the same coin: unstable, disingenuous, celebrity hungry performers who would do ANYTHING to get their 15 minutes (yes, even have surgeries and take hormones if it leads to that influencer lifestyle they so obviously desire). I don't believe Dylan is trans anymore than I ever believed Ollie London was Korean or trans. A cursory Google search brings up Dylan's past attempts to become famous (as an over the top, hyperactive "contestant" on The Price is Right, a silly bit part player on daytime shows like Ellen, etc). Dylan represents a "type" we see in the gay community often and most of us who have been around the block lear to steer clear of them. They are full of drama and are not to be trusted.
The Bud Light controversy is stupid indeed but Mulvany is still gross. I am grossed out by him not because he proclaims to be trans but because he is so clearly got a very lucrative new schtick that is so sexist and full of regressive gender stereotypes that it make Paris Hilton and the Kardashian's look principled. Sorry, Ive got no patience for that nonsense at all. He is free to rake in the cash behaving like and regressive female stereotype until his 15 minutes are up and and I am free to call him out for it.
The thing with Dylan...I mean, it really is a pastiche of being a woman. It's a grift. So get that bag etc., whatever. But I would guess a fair few trans people just trying to get along aren't too happy about the backlash.
I also think where it starts to piss a lot of people off who would not otherwise bother, is when the pastiche starts to feel like mockery. And the sports bra video really seems like that, whether intended or not. It's the ridiculous prancing around, the rictus grin, the almost falling over. I have a 13 year old neice big into sport, I am constantly ferrying her around for matches and tournaments and training. I love it and she gets a lot out of it. But let me tell you, that age group of girls are so so so conscious of their bodies, of actually needing sports bras, of worrying about having a period accident while playing, etc. Nike really could do girls a solid and you know, pick someone who actually needs a bra and that girls/women can relate to, rather than whatever that video was trying to be.
Ehhh... I gotta disagree with Katie. I don't think Dylan radiates joy or positivity. Every bit feels extremely fake and performative. If I wanted to listen to someone aggressively pretending to be happy I'd call my sister in law.
From an excellent essay on Dylan Mulvaney:
“The insult for women comes not from the fact that Mulvaney is given vast sums of money or attention, but that he is given it whilst performing an insulting version of what a woman is or how she experiences the world from birth. Mulvaney has avoided the many perils of “being a girl”, because he was safely behind the shield of being a boy — and a wealthy one at that. Mulvaney has a very privileged background of successful financier male ancestors. Nothing says patriarchy more clearly than a man being offered huge sums of money by companies to pretend to be a woman, whilst actual women sit at home fretting how to feed their children during an economic crisis. A man “womanning” is feted, whilst a woman at times barely survives the experience.”
And
“Mulvaney breezes through his videos with a permanent rictus grin. The subconscious irritation women feel at this stems from the very real experience of our female socialisation. From the time we are commanded to smile as toddlers and for the million times afterwards, women are aware that our “smile” is an expectation, a command and a danger. If we forget to smile, men who are complete strangers will remind us. If we refuse, we may regret it. If a woman stops smiling, she can be accused of having “resting bitch face”, and she has failed in her duty to please and humour men. When Mulvaney performs this forced joy apparently emanating from “being a girl”, women feel the lie through to our bones, because we have lived with the reality.
https://thecritic.co.uk/the-performance-of-a-lifetime/
It's interesting that Katie emphasizes that complaints about Dylan Mulvaney are coming from conservatives whose views are suspect. In the U.K. there are a lot of feminists who complain about this sort of thing--like the absurdity of Nike marketing sports bras to people without breasts--and they are very eloquent about it. I would love to hear a discussion of these people, who are much more interesting than the people issuing death threats. There's a video of Germaine Greer making the rounds and she is very convincing when she complains that Mulvaney and similar people are adopting gender stereotypes of femininity rather than the true feminine. As she points out, giving birth is the quintessential female act, and it is neither pretty nor feminine. It was a long time ago that I first noticed that drag queens were not at all like women, but were a kind of parody. Some find it inspiring and others find it offensive.
Matt Walsh is a prick, but there’s truth in that nasty tirade. Few if any people will ever regard Dylan Mulvaney as a woman in the same way they do, say, Taylor Swift or Kamala Harris. Ditto Lia Thomas. Even most people who say the right things will be pretending to some degree.
"an 8 month old baby girl has been at this longer than Dylan mulvaney" 💀💀💀
What bothers me about Mulvaney's invitation to the White House, more than the eternal gender war in which Mulvaney is a bit player, is that it's example umpty-seven of how the President is being guided by the sort of staff and/or grandchildren who think that what happens on TikTok is what matters.
We have several very current and recently past examples of US senators being steered by staff long past the senators' ability to make their own decisions. That's bad enough. I don't look forward to the possibility of spending the next presidential term with a POTUS who's either decreasingly capable of or unwilling to do his job. It seems more and more likely that that's what's ahead, though.
“We’re not normally so focused on diapers” is quickly becoming a lie
I think he (Elon) is really mad about his kid becoming trans. And I think if you take that as your starting point everything else makes sense. Even if he would deny that I don’t know that I’d believe him. I’d light $44 billion in fire with no plan to go after the people I interpreted as hurting my kid. Maybe his kid has been trans forever but it’s hard to not pretend there isn’t a weird cult energy in the world that says being a man is bad and the best way to find forgiveness for that sin is to be a woman. That’s not explicit anywhere but if all the pressure is “hey, this is bad” and “we will celebrate you over here” that drives some people to change.
I do get the sense Dylan, for instance, chose being trans more than being trans chose her. In contrast it’s obvious Dylan didn’t choose to be gay. I think this is the thing people get upset about. If you’re trans because you’ve had this irresistible voice inside of you your whole life telling you that you should be the opposite gender, okay. Happy to respect whatever you need me to call you. If you become trans because of what I think as high pressure sales tactics, like you’re getting tricked into buying a timeshare, I don’t think I’m doing right by you to go along with it. I wouldn’t insert myself into that spot unless I knew someone very well, though.
Slightly off topic: while Dylan exudes sweetness, and his shtick as a woman is annoying at best, it’s the insanity of activists ready to rip Riley apart that is so horrifying. This isn’t a conservative-liberal thing. It’s impossible to replace women with men but the mob is ready to stage a revolution over it. Respecting biology is at stake, much as physics in the time of Galileo. This time the church is the trans activist mob.
I disagree with Katie and Jesse that Matt Walsh is being a bully when he observes that Dylan has removed what’s masculine without adding what’s feminine. I think this is an important point to make-- a feminist point. Physically, femininity is not simply the absence of masculinity; the idea that women are simply neutered men is an ancient and wholly sexist conceptualization of the female body. To the extent that Dylan presents femininity this way, he reinforces this sexist understanding of women’s bodies.
I doubt Walsh specifically intended to make a feminist argument, but he did. It’s an important and principled critique of Dylan’s performance, not “bullying,” IMO.
I'm not sure there's a topic I've grown fatigued of as quickly as this Dylan Mulvaney controversy.
I can't believe I'm going to say this .. I think I'd rather hear more about the diaper lovers.
Send help.
All of the gender critical people that actually HATE trans people, which there are a lot, are overshadowing the well-intentioned gender critical people that just have understandable concerns for women’s rights and problems related to youth gender medicine.
Forget Dylan Mulvaney.
Jesse has planted the seeds of the destruction of our little group.
Now that we know we have diaper fetishists among us, how can things ever be the same?
“It was one of those titties and beard situations.”
I think it's interesting that Katie and Jessie immediately recognized Ollie London's grift but not Dylan Mulvany's. Those two are two side of the same coin: unstable, disingenuous, celebrity hungry performers who would do ANYTHING to get their 15 minutes (yes, even have surgeries and take hormones if it leads to that influencer lifestyle they so obviously desire). I don't believe Dylan is trans anymore than I ever believed Ollie London was Korean or trans. A cursory Google search brings up Dylan's past attempts to become famous (as an over the top, hyperactive "contestant" on The Price is Right, a silly bit part player on daytime shows like Ellen, etc). Dylan represents a "type" we see in the gay community often and most of us who have been around the block lear to steer clear of them. They are full of drama and are not to be trusted.
The Bud Light controversy is stupid indeed but Mulvany is still gross. I am grossed out by him not because he proclaims to be trans but because he is so clearly got a very lucrative new schtick that is so sexist and full of regressive gender stereotypes that it make Paris Hilton and the Kardashian's look principled. Sorry, Ive got no patience for that nonsense at all. He is free to rake in the cash behaving like and regressive female stereotype until his 15 minutes are up and and I am free to call him out for it.