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J Mann's avatar

Yeah, to outsiders, if you say "that's not a couch, that's a love seat," you're not denying that the piece of furniture exists, but you're disagreeing with the other person about how we should define the terms "couch" and "love seat."

Many trans people report strong emotional reactions to having people disagree with definitions that concern their identities,* and I think the use of "deny my existence" is an attempt to capture the emotional valence, even if it doesn't match up with every day definitions of "existence."

* (For example, I think I recall Ozy Frantz writing on their old blog that misgendering them felt like being stabbed with a knife or something similar.)

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Theodric's avatar

It’s a slippery rhetorical slope though (I would argue intentionally): disagree with my identity -> deny my existence -> threaten my life and safety -> ongoing genocide of trans people.

And the last step on that slope is thrown around with abandon.

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Martin Blank's avatar

Ozy sounds like someone who should be taken remotely seriously then.

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Theodric's avatar

They actually should - they are one of the “autistic rationalist” sort of gender-havers that *usually* provide pretty even handed and reasonable, or at least genuinely thought provoking, takes.

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Martin Blank's avatar

I am sorry someone misgendering you is not “like a stabbing” and if you think so you are not a reasonable person worth listening to.

I had a girl begme to get engaged for a year, and then right after we got engaged she ran off with a rich guy she met. At no point would I have described that as “feeling like I was stabbed”.

That’s just not a sane reaction to misgendering.

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Theodric's avatar

I’d need to see it in context. I’ve read a fair amount of their stuff (they are a friend of Scott Alexander’s) and them saying that statement and meaning it as a literal comparison the way you are treating it would be out of character for their writing.

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J Mann's avatar

Ozy is worth reading - they're probably over analytical but very thoughtful.

To be fair, they've written a lot about having autism and BPD, so some of the reaction to being misgendered may be from those factors.

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Shannon Thrace's avatar

Feeling offended at being misgendered is only possible in a world where some people previously agreed to the gendering request.

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