look, I know we like to dunk on the dumb libs on this show over gender stuff, but to any Trump supporters here, we love you, but come on, you guys are being taken for total fucking idiots by this rich billionaire.
Yes, but it often seems that expectation to be less tribal only falls on Trump’s critics. What is one to make of ‘Trump2028’ seemingly without irony 🤷🏼♂️.
A lack of tribalism would seem to involve country& constitution before party or ‘leader’.
And if you really think conservatives are, on average, more tribal that liberals, you’ve gotta be smoking crack. They are AT LEAST equal, and I’d argue that the woke mob is quite a bit worse. This country was run by insane people, at every level of society, for the last decade that cancel you for the slightest woke social faux pas. The pendulum is swinging but the right is nowhere near that and I don’t believe have been for decades.
Wokeness was a liberal invention that crippled society and it was built on tribalism.
I agree that mindless trump support is..mindless. I can't bring myself to be very judgemental because the left has a nearly exactly proportional number of delusional buy in for their candidates. You have to dunk on both sides of the delusion before it has any consistency.
What dem candidates that millions of folks have ebulliently supported show the same level of total corruption and bullshit? In my circles, everyone felt like Biden was Too Damn Old even before we knew how compromised he was. People weren't stoked about Harris until she was the candidate, and even then it was more like 'she's fine.' People love AOC, I guess?
I both think you are ignoring a sizeable cohort of democrat party voters who are nutcase level supporters, and overestimating the number of zealous trump fans.
Your statement on the feelings around Biden and Harris are mirrored in my experience with how people feel about trump. Its not rabid Fandom or mindless support. They just prefer it/him to the blue side. Most of my cohort was pulling for DeSantis to win in a primary.
But preferring trump to the blue side means being ok with him saying he wants to be an authoritarian, using his office to punish people critical of him, and being ok with him handing appointments and contracts to cronies. It is not the same.
You are trying to both sides the parties when they are not the same in terms of the level of corruption they are enabling and the dangerous ways they are approaching our democracy. I'm sorry it hurts your feelings to have it pointed out that the bad behavior democratic voters reluctantly put with with from their party is of a far lesser magnitude than the bad behavior the republican voters are putting up with from their 'team.'
The Epstein stuff has actually shown how false it is to say that Trump supporters are "cultists." If Trumpers are cultists, one would think that they would say, "Ok well Trump says there's nothing to the Epstein stuff, time to move on. Of course, Trumpers are very largely not falling in line. Kind of odd for a cult 😂.
I disagree. Cult leaders don't wield absolute authority over their minions; their power comes through manipulation, which requires an understanding of those minions. Lots of Trumpanzees are conspiracists, but Trump's admonition to ignore all this goes directly against that.
You can get a conspiracy theorist to discard facts, because most people don't really care about facts anyway. However, when Trump says, "Will you people move off the Epstein stuff already?", he's telling them to discard their entire worldview, and that's something people are VERY attached to. Some of them will do it, sure, but some of them won't.
Exactly. All this shows is that Trump supporters are more riled up about their Epstein conspiracy theory than they are about tariff policies and health care... which doesn't speak well of them.
Perhaps any direct involvement or adjacency to sex trafficking young girls is a line in the sand for some of them, cult followers though they may be. Grabbing adult women by the pussy is one thing, but assaulting young girls, no way. And not all of the MAGAs are booing Trump, maybe just half.
I think the community here does a fair job of dunking on the crazies of both sides. There’s more far lefty types though but that seems fair. I appreciate them because they help me understand the other side. And while I may be a cunt sometimes, hopefully I can do the same from the right.
But yeah the moment you ignore crazies on your own side to just shout down the other side you kind of lose.
Like all this Epstein nonsense on the right. Absolute insanity and they’re all acting like morons.
I don’t feel like an idiot. I never cared about Epstein. I cared about immigration and the economy. One of those is going pretty well and the other remains to be seen but I think it’s a long game and I’m hopeful. Then there’s the Gaza thing and basically the whole Middle East and that’s going pretty well. Don’t care too much about Ukraine but I hope that’ll be turning around soon.
The entire Epstein drama isn’t even on my list. I never expected all these names or the truth. Did he kill himself or get Clintoned? Did he have dirt on all the rich people or not? Is there a trove of info that has been and is still being hidden? I’m quite agnostic on these issues. I don’t know and I never cared. It would be cool to definitively know, but I’m not gonna go insane over it like some other schmucks.
I mean relative to how it has been. We’ve been kicking the shit out of some really bad people. And we got those Abraham accords going. The region is slowly turning away from anti west sentiments and Israel/Jew hatred, through carrots or sticks it doesn’t matter. Peace through strength is a thing. The worst action made by the US in the region in recent memory is the horribly executed Afghanistan withdrawal.
If you’d like to provide a substantive argument to the contrary I’d love to hear it fella.
My guy, you just completely shifted the goal posts on what you said. Listen up chief, if you want to have real conversation why don’t you stick to what you said?
If you have no job, no car, and a shitty apartment that you’re about to be evicted from, you’d say you’re doing pretty bad right?
So if you get a decent job, pay your bills and are managing to save for a car, relatively speaking, you’re doing pretty good right?
I listed several things, the Middle East was only one of them. Just because I didn’t write a novel on that one point doesn’t mean I’m moving goal posts so step off slugger.
You have 100% moved the goal posts from the first comment I responded to and your analogy is completely off the mark. The Middle East is in no way back on its feet after a rough patch. At best, it’s a drug addict mid-divorce, barely functioning, with things poised to either get slightly better, spiral further, or collapse entirely
Regardless of your politics Israel is objectively in the midst of a multi-front war with a humanitarian crisis on its border. Their prime minister faces multiple domestic legal challenges and perpetual war is the only thing keeping him alive politically. European allies are critical both behind the scenes and publicly as support among their populace for Israel reach historic lows. In the U.S., the political fringes on both the left and right are openly antisemitic in a way not seen in recent memory. Among younger Americans, support for Israel as an idea is vanishing. Even if you concede some tactical gains, it’s delusional to claim the overall situation is “going well.”
Syria is in the middle of a chaotic power vacuum with a former Al-Qaeda jihadist taking nominal control of the country. In March of this year government forces displaced thousands of Alawites leaving dozens dead. The Druze and Bedouin clashed in areas that Israel laid claim to through air strikes. While in the north the Turks and Kurds continue to threaten one another.
The US-Israeli strikes on Iran were an escalation of tensions. Yet another country bombed by the Americans with little to show for the cost in soft power and actual cash. Iran faces crippling inflation and massive political unrest, wonderful things in a country of 90 million. Nothing to see here.
Yemen continues to attack ships in the Red Sea and we don’t even need to get into the communication and intel blunders of the US High command. Houthi forces have agreed to a fragile ceasefire. 10-12% of global trade goes through these waters. Seems cool.
Hezbollah is weakened in Lebanon and it remains to be seen who will replace them. When has that ever gone wrong?
Egypt continues to block Palestinians from entering through the border. God knows what will happen in the next few months.
You can continue to suck off MBS and the Gulf States as you see fit.
I think you and I have different definitions of going well. Or let me know if you want to move the goal posts again.
> I listed several things, the Middle East was only one of them. Just because I didn’t write a novel on that one point doesn’t mean I’m moving goal posts so step off slugger.
you know you sound like a total fucking idiot, right? like, that's part of the act?
it's a good bit: "I'm gonna say something so unbelievable dumb, and when someone calls me on it, I'll go 'whatever bro, that was in a LIST of stuff, I don't see you refuting the entire list, so I'm actually the winner, SUCK IT'".
Forgive me if I’m wrong but as far as I’m aware the terrorist elements there have largely been eradicated.
If you’re more concerned with the ongoing humanitarian crisis, call me a monster but I don’t much care. From what I can tell the population was not wholly innocent. In their actions or morals or beliefs. So if the terrorists in Gaza could have exterminated the entirety of Israel they would have done so and surely been largely celebrated by their people. I’m not going to shed a tear about what happens when you fuck around and find out.
Yes, the humanitarian crisis, you dolt. I guess the babies that have been born in Gaza since October 7 fucked around and now they are finding out, huh? And if the terrorist elements have been largely eradicated as you say, why are they still bombing and starving the civilians? The terrorists didn't begin to have the ability to exterminate Israel.
You are a monster. To have only empathy for the babies who tragically died on October 7 and none for the babies of Gaza makes you one. Go fuck yourself.
If the people of Gaza wanted that to end they would have revolted against the terrorists that caused it. But instead they celebrated the men that went into Israel and personally, violently, with purpose and intent, to rape and murder civilians and kidnap civilians.
Israel has shipped countless tons of humanitarian aid into Gaza. The purpose is not to kill or starve civilians. If you want to try to tell me that a missile strike into a building housing civilians that was previously warned to leave,
is the same as a group of men videoing themselves raping and mutilating and killing women and children at a music festival in a surprise attack, then YOU are the monster.
I do not want dead civilians. But I want much more that the problem is absolutely crushed now to save from issues later. The situation in the Middle East has been allowed to fester too long and it should have dealt the violent hand of justice decades ago. It’s the only thing the region will understand or respect as we drag them into the modern world.
I’m with you. My priority is destroying Hamas and I’m unbothered by the supposed humanitarian crisis. Hamas has chosen to wage war from behind their women and children, and that means their women are going to die with them.
But very bluntly yes. Any and all civilian deaths are directly linked to Hamas actions. Israel IS trying to minimize casualties while Hamas tries to maximize them for strategic political and optical gain.
And in the end, another peoples civilians are not as important as your own.
Any sane nation would prioritize their own people over others, especially if it is a wartime scenario.
Hamas prioritizes no one but themselves. Hamas is evil and there is no equivalency.
Not mocking you. I sincerely agree. Hamas has given the entire nation of Israel two choices: 1) be destroyed, or 2) destroy Palestinian women and children in order to destroy the Hamas combatants who deliberately hide among them.
Both choices are awful, but Israel must take the second one in order to survive.
So, not a Trump supporter or even a Republican/Conservative.
But here's the challenge you face when you say they're being taken as idiots.
By 2026, the entirety of anyone under 30's voting experience is going to be Biden and Trump.
Meaning, the only Democratic term they probably remember will be one where Democrats were LITERALLY taken as fucking idiots while a feeble minded old man was used as a puppet while a shadow cabinet ran the country.
Second, if you're not an amateur political wonk and only care about kitchen table politics (e.g. how much does butter cost and how much of my check is taken in taxes), Trump is the only recent candidate that's delivered on any of that.
Given, some economists are saying he'll wreck everything by doing it...but...every Trump term has significantly reduced tax complexity and tax rates for most people. This one is looking to be the same.
I mean I find the guy loathsome...but he just keeps insisting on giving me more of my money back. Like a lot. And it's really hard not to think about that when it comes time to vote. I'm always like "damnit...I guess this fucker's going to increase my taxes and I don't really know for what benefit cause I sure never see it" when I do vote democrat. And you have to be pretty damned liberal to swallow that.
Lastly, there's a huge chunk of people who really are freaked out by the illegal immigration numbers. And they don't believe you when Democrats assure them these are jobs they don't even want (Sam Harris was repeating this meme this week).
And Trump has delivered on this. There's no disagreement that illegal immigration has slowed to a trickle from the flood it was before. People may be critical of the methods. They may be right. But with the lack of any alternative, Trump supporters are going to point to that and say "He got it done. What's your plan?". As of today, Democrats plan is "do nothing, just let the illegal immigration go unchecked and don't enforce the law." which doesn't seem to be an acceptable answer for these voters.
So, if I try to see it from their perspective...it's probably that you can call them fucking idiots all you want as they go to the bank to cash their return checks and apply for jobs that are no longer being filled by illegal immigrants.
Trump "delivered" on the economy? None of his policy proposals are implemented yet and it will take years to see the effects. The only exception, that is implemented, is that we have much higher tariffs on imports than before. When these policies are fully implemented, we'll be spending a record amount of GDP on servicing debt, millions of people will lose their health insurance, and yes some wealthy people will pay less taxes. TBD how the tariffs will go but I'm not optimistic.
If only there were some word for people who don't understand how policy and economics work and can't be bothered to learn about it... let's go with "idiots."
Ok, look. Everything you just said may be true. But it's "blah blah blah acronym blah economics blah" to the overwhelming majority of voters. They don't care. They don't read the Wall Street Journal or listen to economic wonk podcasts. They don't care about the debt (each party just increases it every term), etc.
What he delivered on was simplifying tax returns and increasing tax returns for most people.
Yes. "Rich people got more". Sure. But the child tax credit, dependent care, the raised standard deduction....these benefited everyone. Just to name a few.
Most households in the US received 1k or more from the changes (tax policy center). I think I saw close to 4 or 5k myself.
This rolled the changes forward and added more. I expect to increased returns from SALT, raised mortgage interest cap, and increased child and dependent care credits.
I'm agreeing with you. But the problem is you're talking past people who are voting.
I pointed out that the average voter doesn't care about a bunch of wonky economic forecasting. They just look at how their taxes are easier and their returns higher and Trump delivered on that.
You replied with a bunch of wonky economic forecasting.
That's exactly my point. You are trying to say that it's wrong to call Trump voters idiots and also that Trump supporters don't understand the economy because it's apparently too wonkpilled to, y'know, try to understand what the law that just passed is actually going to do.
I agree with your diagnosis that most voters don't understand policy, I'm just saying they don't understand policy *because they are idiots*. It isn't smart politics to call them idiots in public, but they are.
> I'm just saying they don't understand policy *because they are idiots*.
I don't think it's unique to the right. It's generally true of all adults. Left, right, whatever.
People are concerned with their day to day lives. Getting kids to school, working overtime, getting to the doctor or dentist, baseball games, track meets.
Whether the intersection they take to work is going to be backed up because of the road construction going on. Grocery shopping. What's for dinner.
They just don't care enough about the rest to find time in their day for it. And it's not something we prioritize in our education systems...so they don't have that base of knowledge they may have on other topics.
There's also interesting trends in economic knowledge like it increases significantly with age....implying it's probably not just a matter of economic status or education level.
So, where we diverge is when I see the overwhelming majority of the population is ignorant about something, I stop short of attributing that to an inherent and fixed quality of being too dumb to grasp it.
Either they are not dumb, but the topic is exceptionally hard (differentiating between idiocy and requiring a very high intelligence) or they are not dumb, but ignorant.
And again, economic ignorance is not unique to Conservatives or Republicans.
The left have their dumb ass economic policies they won't let go too. Like rent control...one of the very few economic polices for which there is consensus from left and right economist that it increases housing cost, decreases housing quality, and generally makes your city worse off overall.
"Taken for idiots" maybe has to do with the level of enthusiastic "hang on every word" level of support among the Trump base who ALSO was 100% convinced he would go through with his promises, especially on Epstein.
Biden had virtually no die hard supporters, and therefore almost nobody who thought he was going to save the world. Dem-aligned media hyping him as the next FDR was a total astroturf, virtually no voters really believed it.
They dropped in his first term. Started to climb back up by the end. Then hit a 10 year peak middle of Biden's term. Started going down towards the end. Started climbing a small amount again. Probably tariff nonsense.
Regardless. What people remember are the peaks and valleys. And if all you remember is Trump and Biden (voters under 30), you'll remember a 10 year low during Trump and a 10 year high during Biden.
W.r.t. taxes. My taxes have 100% gone down. And they were simplified for most households by increasing the standard deduction, which most people take.
The TCJA almost doubled the standard deduction. By 2022, the number of itemized returns dropped from 31% to 9% of households. 65% of households saw a reduction in their tax burden.
So, to answer the question....butter was cheaper and taxes lowered/simplified under Trump vs Biden.
The tax changes are definitely from Trump. Food prices...I have my doubts any president has significant influence over this in their term. Lag effects of policy, other externalities, etc. But that's not how the typical voter thinks of these things.
As an independent and one-time Trump voter (2024. Biden 2020, 3rd party 2016), I couldn't care less about Epstein and didn't find much to disagree with in this episode.
I also do not give a shit about Epstein anymore. He was a horrible horrible person and he died in jail. And Ghislane is also in jail. There's no "client list". I'm sick and tired of hearing about it.
Ghislaine Maxwell’s arc is interesting. She had been a socialite in the UK, but when her father died, his empire collapsed and the extent of his financial misdeeds came to light. There wasn’t much money left, and it was tied up in lawsuits and investigations. It’s hard to be a broke socialite.
Across the Atlantic is a rich guy she falls in with. I always read her involvement as being enamored with him, and he can support her lifestyle, but there is no real romantic relationship to be had, because of her Tanner stage. So she became basically his procuress. An interesting, middle age woman with a British accent would be great for that, since the girls would be more at ease with her than a large, apparently very odd, man.
The actual facts of Epstein’s crimes and life are so terrible and fantastic, why does it need more to it? Clearly he was an excellent liar and manipulator, and must have been capable of being charming. He gets a job at Dalton when he only graduated high school. There were, unsurprisingly, reports that he was a bit creepy with female students. He gets fired, and charms his way into a job at Bear Stearns. I believe he got it through a student’s parent, but even if he didn’t, many were part of the same world.
Unfortunately I think the story is pretty banal - guy was a monster, but people were seduced by the lifestyle. Rich dilettante uses his money to buy access to interesting events, meet interesting people, give money to charities and research. The charity people and researchers now will gladly take his call and tell him how great he is! People see an opportunity to get close to that wealth and supposed power, overlook his crimes, perhaps justifying it to themselves. “He’s done terrible things, but he’s giving money to this important charity I run! Money to fund research.” Or it’s like…”what? You are inviting me to your private island on your jet? Sure!”
What I want to know is how he made money? He could have made a lot at Bear Stearns, but if it was private jet/island money, it would have been something we know about - maybe he was allocated shares in an IPO of a company that became huge, but Bear was more a Fixed Income shop. He did he go from getting fired to “advising” Lex Wexner. I believe he embezzled from Wexner, but what got him to the point that he was 1) in Lex Wexner’s circle and 2) Wexner thought he should be his money manager. You can’t embezzle unless you have been given control of assets! It’s not like he had a track record as a financial advisor at which to point. Even if Wexner met him by chance and thought “This guy has promised! I will give him a shot,” you would start with a small amount and not sign over power of attorney.
Ghislaine’s story really influenced my parenting. I watched some Netflix documentary about Epstein when my kids were really little, and I was like, OMG, people who grow up with money and lose it will become monsters just to regain their former status back. 😬 so I was like, I can NEVER let these kids get used to fancy things. So far this parenting philosophy has also saved me a lot of money.
This is what I tell myself in the mirror after looking at my bank account. "This is good, actually, because your kids won't lose money and aide a sex trafficking billionaire"
Meh. Monsters are monsters. Monsters that grow up poor will do monstrous things to get rich and monsters that grow up rich and lose it will do monstrous things to get it back.
Ghislaine Maxwell is the daughter of Robert Maxwell, a multimillionaire who died under suspicious circumstances back in the 90s. He was suspected to be a corporate psychopath and there is some evidence he psychologically and emotionally abused Ghislaine; it's also speculated he may have physically and sexually abused her. There are also stories of her recruiting young women for her father at college. I think Epstein was someone she was comfortable with because of his familiarity - another corporate psychopath who would look after her if she did what he wanted. There's no doubt she is a very sick sociopathic person too.
Robert Maxwell was an Israeli asset. This is widely accepted in the UK media after revelations in Helen Lewis's magazine Private Eye.
Wildly enough just because Jewish people or Israel is involved in something murky doesn't make the exposure of such antisemitic.
But good work on tossing the term at me. We are rapidly approaching an age when the Holocaust and antisemitism will count for very little in the general public because of it's constant abuse.
Okay, I apologise. However I don’t think Epstein being an asset is ridiculous in the slightest. Both in his life and death there are just too many oddities to be hand-waved away.
A random civilian with that many high level contacts, an intelligence agency would be insane NOT to try and turn him.
It’s an open secret that Dennis Rodman is a CIA asset due to his North Korea contacts. Wouldn’t be surprised if George Clooney and other celebs who do international charity work or a lot of activities abroad are in with at least one alphabet agency. It’s silly to act like Epstein is unusual in this regard.
I believe there is far more evidence supporting Maxwell than Epstein. I believe the Epstein claim came from an anonymous Trump I admin leak, which was likely Steve Bannon, or Epstein himself.
Rich guy who seems to know everyone, and has so many skeletons isn’t a terrible source for an intelligence agency to cultivate, but he was always rather flashy and a braggart. Occasionally being a useful source of information is believable, but you’d want to keep him at a distance.
This has always been my read on him. I spent many years in the east coast private school world and saw my share of dime store Epsteins. Expensive prep schools are easy marks for charming bullshitters looking for quick access to the rich and famous.
He mentions during the housekeeping segment that he's "unfortunately had to dip a toe back into the apps lately" and then makes clear he's talking about dating apps
Personal relationships can sometimes escalate and also dissolve quickly, enough that the terms girlfriend / boyfriend / someone you are dating seriously, etc can be appropriate one week and not the next, or vice-versa. That said, based on the audio equivalent of reading-between-the-lines (maybe "listening between the sentences" ? ) I'm unconvinced whether Jesse's assertion of a girlfriend was a statement of fact, or a statement to deflect his podcast listeners from too much interest in his personal life. So maybe, or maybe not, there was a break-up.
The funniest aspect of this has been watching the American Libs do a total 180 on all the Epstein stuff, in the exact opposite direction as the Trump appointees in this episode. Previously, when only MAGA sorts were banging on about it, it was a sign of how deranged and weird they were… now, all the lib accounts and late-night hosts are giving it large about Trump’s ties to Jeff.
Yes, the libs are totally the ones being irrational in this situation...not the most powerful man in the world suddenly not caring about an issue he partly ran on and has stirred up crazy conspiracy theories because he is 100% on the list.
The distinction would be that a large part of the "America Libs" (and especially the politicians and influencers who are most active on publicly promoting it) don't think there's anything there - the point of the "total 180" is to hoist Trump, et al. on their own petard.
If I see someone with a small blood stain on their clothes and they say nothing I will probably assume it is nothing significant.
If they walk in and say “This is nothing, I murdered no one. Stop looking, why are we still talking about this blood stain. If you ask me one more question I will never talk to you again… in fact I might sue.” Well then I am suspicious.
My reaction to the Epstein stuff was basically: 1. Yes! I’m glad they got that creep, 2. It is super frustrating that he died for the victims. 3. I wonder if it will look bad for Trump that he died on his watch given their connections. 4. Right wingers going on about the Clintons had him killed? Huh?
Where was the 180? I don’t think I ever saw anyone say that Epstein did nothing wrong or that info about him should be concealed.
Younger lefties, though, and not so young (I'm in my 40s), virtually everyone I know on the left was absolutely livid about Epstein and the Epstein file with names not getting released.
The idea this is of only concern to MAGA is preposterous. Alex Jones may have alluded to it early (although in exaggerated form and inferred there was child torture), but that was only a good reason to ignore it if you are the worst type of blue team shitlib.
I love the part of the Prince Andrew story where Virginia Guiffre talked about how he sweated all over her on the dance floor during one of their encounters while she was underage. Andrew counters by saying that due to an overload of adrenaline he experienced during his time in the Faulklands war, he is actually unable to sweat. The implication being that it must have been some other gross perv sweating on her. Of course online sleuths were able to find pictures of him sweating which was funny, as was the BBC interview he did about the allegations where he was (metaphorically) sweating like a pig.
There’s an issue with the “underage” claim, which Katie and Jesse made too - she was 17. In a country where the age of consent is *16*. That’s why she couldn’t accuse Prince Andrew of statutory rape. Ghislaine Maxwell wasn’t dumb, she brought to London a girl who was young but legal.
I wondered about the position of trust aspect of the consent laws. Apparently your mum being in charge of the police, courts and prisons doesn't count which seems like an oversight.
I listen to Louise Perry and a father of one of the grooming victims said “I don’t want to sound like a conservative…” and I was like “wtf did conservatives do that was so bad you can’t give a full throated defense of your child?”
Just got back from 10 blissful days at the mountain-ringed lake in Vermont, enjoying twice-daily swims and various types of boating—kayaking, standup paddle-boarding (I can’t pull that shit off, it turns out), and good old gasoline-powered motorboat cruising—and I’m simply beside myself here, Jesse: maple creemees are overrated???
Dude come on, a) that’s not even true of the regular-ass soft-serve-in-a-cone type creemees, but b) it’s *extremely* not true of the magnificent creemee coffee, which is exactly what it sounds like: basically an affogato but with delicious local maple soft serve instead of plain vanilla. There’s a sugarhouse like 2 minutes’ drive/10 minutes’ walk from the house we stay in and I had that for my coffee every single day (every day they were open anyway; Vermont isn’t exactly famous for long business hours, as anyone who’s been there for 36 hours could tell you). In the morning I just grabbed the dog, walked up the dirt road to the sugarhouse, and Christ alive was that a lovely way to start my day, like a cartoon of a bucolic northern New England idyll. Wouldn’t wanna make a jabit of those obviously but as a vacation morning routine it was just absolutely perfect. Maybe they’re less good in other parts of the state, I dunno, but my spot not too far from Stowe is doing it right!
Sweartagod man, I love Vermont; as goofy and crunchy as it is, it’s just a little miniature paradise. Could I live there? Eh, not until I’m at least 15 years older than I am now: just not enough going on up there in the least populous state in the country—for example most dinner places close at 8pm except in Burlington, and I don’t tend to hang around Burlington when I’m up there since I’m coming up from New York and the whole point is to be perched on the side of a mountain. But yeah, it’s a reeeeally lovely, special place, and even though the mountains are small (highest peak is Mt. Mansfield at 4,395’), it somehow doesn’t look or *feel* that way. (And I say this as a 10-year resident of Asheville/WNC where the peaks are much higher, fwiw.) Been going to Vermont for years and it still has that magic for me every time. Can’t wait to go back this winter for some skiing and snowmobiling (and creemee coffees), if not sooner.
As a dad, I would be remiss not to remind everyone on the thread to not forget upon seeing affogato on the menu anywhere to ask "What's the name of that dessert with the ice cream with coffee on top? Ah, it's so frustrating - it's on the tip of my tongue!" and then when someone says"Affogato?" you say "Me too! Let's try to remembero together!"
Who would have expected a paean to Vermont & maple affogatos for THIS episode? The unexpected life affirming beauty of this comment is exactly what I love about the BARPOD comment section. Smart people, unexpected insights.
The uncharacteristic eloquence is what makes me skeptical about this letter. Trump probably thinks an "enigma" is when someone shoots a bunch of water up your butt.
Do you think it's cognitive decline, an intentional ploy to appeal to the lowest common denominator, or a little bit of both? I've heard of other politicians ostensibly "code switching," and going from talking and behaving like normal bureaucrats during day-to-day policy work, to acting buffoonish and insane when they're in the public eye.
Yes, you made a joke about Trump not knowing the word "enigma". But he does know that word, so the joke doesn't work, sorry to be the one to break it to you.
What planet are you from? A joke does not have to be a verifiable statement of fact. I was being hyperbolic-- you know, when someone exaggerates something for dramatic or comedic effect.
I personally have never really cared about the Epstein story one way or another, but something I've always found poorly explained is why a lot of very wealthy and powerful people kept hanging around Epstein after his initial legal problems became public. Like, yes, he was rich, but, based on what's been said publicly about his assets, he wasn't *insanely* rich. E.g., Bill Gates' net worth was literally about 100 times greater than Epstein's -- he could fly on an ultra-fancy private plane and have his own private archipelago if he wanted to -- so why keep socializing with someone who has those sorts of legal problems?
He was convicted on one count of soliciting a minor, who was on the older side of his victim age range. After that he went on to lean into giving money from foundations that he was involved with to scientists at MIT and other institutions, so maybe he didn't look like THAT bad of a guy to people. It was only after Julie K. Brown started looking into it, from 2016 on, that the details of how many victims there were, and how young they were, became more widely known.
What constitutes insanely rich? Besides his two private islands ($86m), he owned a mansion in Palm Beach ($12m), a ranch in New Mexico ($17m), an apartment in Paris($8.6m), and one of the largest private homes in Manhattan (+50m). He made hundreds of millions as a money manager for billionaires. He borrowed money and had dealings with Deutsche Bank and JP Morgan Chase, which have both paid out millions in settlements.
Isn't the simplest explanation for Epstein's death that he was given privacy to commit suicide?
He was already on suicide watch, and made a previous attempt, and was clearly ready to go.
So it wasn't about getting Ninja Jason Bond in and out, but rather just switching off the feed for a couple of minutes and informing him: "OK Mr Epstein, you have privacy..."
Or even him just being told nobody would intervene, and then the tape being subsequently doctored to put however was supposed to be watching in the clear.
I finally understand why there are so many painfully pedantic guys here in BARPodland. They learned it from Katie.
I disagree that this is the dumbest thing to break up MAGA. It’s hugely symbolic. Rich and powerful men have been abusing young girls since the dawn of time. (And isn’t the prosecution of Bolsonaro itself somewhat corrupt?)
The Clinton Kill List seems crazy now, but it will seem less crazy once Bill and Hillary are gone. The rigging of the 1960 election was also considered a kooky conspiracy theory until everyone involved was dead, and now it’s accepted by many historians as fact.
I don’t think the analogy works. That some ballots were stuffed has been common knowledge for a very long while, the degree to which it actually altered the outcome is very much contested & there’s no consensus that it did.
Multiple murders of which the cover up would require a vast conspiracy in multiple jurisdictions (I’m assuming people don’t think they murdered all these people in the same place) over a very long period of time, given Bill & Hilary are both apparently long running & wider ranging seriel killers, is another thing entirely.
My point is that no one takes crazy-sounding conspiracies about famous people seriously until they’re a thing of the past. While I doubt there’s an official “Clinton kill list,” it’s certainly not normal for one couple to be connected to so many suicides (especially the Tarmac guy).
"one couple" in this case being probably the most famous couple in the world circa 2000. they know a fuck ton of people. some of those people have died. that's it.
I can only repeat myself. The 1960 election isn’t a ‘crazy conspiracy’, there’s stuff we definitely know and then an argument over its extent and its impact on the outcome.
How do you know it’s not normal, a couple who’ve both had such wide ranging careers in public life will come into contact with far more people than average. If you started with a conspiratorial mindset and went through any major public figures life you could find all sorts of connections. And some of the Clinton stuff is totally batshit.
You’re reasoning appears to be nothing more then “there’s no smoke without fire”. If either one or both of them are involved with not one but multiple murders and there’s so far no evidence just conspiracy theorising, covering it up would involve a vast conspiracy.
If you want to give the credence that’s up to you 🤷🏼♂️
The greatest flyer I ever saw was one for the Suicide Hotline with a picture of Jeffrey Epstein that said EPSTEIN DIDN’T KILL HIMSELF AND NEITHER SHOULD YOU.
People who make the distinction between hebephile and pedophile are my favorite people. They do so knowing full well this makes them look like a pedophile. But they still do it because words matter! 🫡
I dunno if I really believe in hebephilia. I may just not be able to imagine it with my non-perverted female brain but it seems to be that men (and the small number of women) who go after younger teens are not doing it because of physical attraction but mental ability. Essentially easier to manipulate,
Otherwise you could keep things legal fairly easily as women who look 14 when they are 18 are not that rare (especially if you are a millionaire).
I think it’s more to do with a pre-modern primal urge.
We created age of consent laws because we recognize pubescent young people are not equipped for the emotional fallout of sexual relationships — even though they are *sexually* mature.
But evolution doesn’t care about our feelings. The only fallout it’s concerned with is babies falling out of vaginas.
From evolution’s perspective, a reproductively-mature 15-year-old is the same as a reproductively-mature 23-year-old.
I think age of consent laws are valid and good. Just because nature thinks it’s a good idea for 15-year-olds to have sex doesn’t mean it is. Lots of natural things are harmful.
Hebephiles simple chose to embrace a harmful natural instinct. While this embrace is more common with men, it also seems quite common among attractive blonde school teachers. They stay banging a 14-year-old and convincing him to murder their husband.
That people genuinely find 15 year olds attractive is not what I am disputing but I find it hard to believe rather they also don't find 18/19/20 year olds attractive too. My understanding of paedophilia is it is *exclusively* an attraction to prepubescebt children. That's the problem, they are at war with themselves (if 'virtuous') and live miserably. If they found adults attractive too it wouldn't be as big an issue.
I find it hard to believe the brain draws a line at 16/17/18 and stops finding these girls attractive. It must be a more conscious preference.
Well, if we're going to get pedantic about definitions, we have to parse the different reasons why people abuse children. Not everyone who abuses children is a "pedophile" in the orientation sense; many abusers are addicts or have other impulse control disorders and prey on children because they can, not necessarily because they prefer children to adult women. And then there probably is a second category of men like Epstein, where part of the attraction is less physical than about manipulation and control.
But AFAIK the evidence does support that there are a category of people who are attracted to children as an orientation, and we know this because some of these guys find it deeply disturbing and would prefer to not be this way. And we also know that, for people who have this attraction, it usually comes with a particular age range.
So a) not all child sex abusers are hebe/pedophiles, b) we don't really know what Epstein's motivation was, c) hebe/pedophiles do exist whether or not Epstein was one.
I belive in peadophiles. I explained above but to reiterate here, I cannot see how you can be attracted to 14/15 year old teens and not 18/19 years olds when often times they are indistinguishable.
Either they are picking developmentally slow (physically) 15 year olds and they actually a paedophiles or they are picking post pubescent ones in which case its clearly less about physical attraction and more about emotional maturity.
Yes. I’d say puberty was less a niggle with olden-day people. Muhammad married a 6-year-old and that didn’t negatively impact his cult’s growing marketshare at all. Not sure if you could get a pedo cult off the ground today.
According to Hadith and Aisha’s own account, he married her at 6 and had sex with her at 9. I’d say that is firmly within the pre-pubescent pedo range. Most modern-day people scoff at boning 9-year-olds: https://sunnah.com/bukhari:5134
I was wondering if maybe he paid a guard to help him commit suicide? Would help explain the gap in the tape without a major conspiracy. The guard could have helped him get in position and then got out of there.
Why wouldn’t he? Because he’s an incredibly rich man with a lifetime of getting away with shit behind him and (potentially) a treasure trove of blackmail material.
(I am Devil’s Advocate-ing that, but I would guess that’s what believers would suggest.)
I agree that suicide is the most likely cause of death. Most conspiracies would require a staggering number of people to be involved, but not this one. Doesn't make it true, but it's not impossible.
I do user testing via compensated online survey. We occasionally get flooded with sign-ups by “new volunteers” who are clearly professional survey spammers from Africa. The responses always list a name that sounds like it was created by a random name generator where someone asked for the whitest, Mormon-sounding name possible. Like, “Jeremiah Michael” or “Trace Woodgrains.” Always include a Gmail address that is some combo of initial-name-string of numbers. They always self-identify as Black, usually male, age between 18 and 34, usually LGBTQ+. They say they are based in the US, but if I check the geodata they are typically in Nigeria or Kenya. It’s predictable enough that I trained my employee to profile and delete young Black, gay men with LDS-ass names. God help me if we ever do an actual ad campaign targeting Utah Pride’s BIPOC caucus.
look, I know we like to dunk on the dumb libs on this show over gender stuff, but to any Trump supporters here, we love you, but come on, you guys are being taken for total fucking idiots by this rich billionaire.
I'm sorry but minus one "I love you" to the Trump supporters from me 🥲
Progress is more likely if we hate on Tump and not the people who support him. Not that I’m one to talk as someone from a different country.
No- you’re right. Americans need way less tribalism.
Yes, but it often seems that expectation to be less tribal only falls on Trump’s critics. What is one to make of ‘Trump2028’ seemingly without irony 🤷🏼♂️.
A lack of tribalism would seem to involve country& constitution before party or ‘leader’.
Miller, it’s obviously a joke.
And if you really think conservatives are, on average, more tribal that liberals, you’ve gotta be smoking crack. They are AT LEAST equal, and I’d argue that the woke mob is quite a bit worse. This country was run by insane people, at every level of society, for the last decade that cancel you for the slightest woke social faux pas. The pendulum is swinging but the right is nowhere near that and I don’t believe have been for decades.
Wokeness was a liberal invention that crippled society and it was built on tribalism.
Lol…you nicely proved the point of the person you’re arguing against.
Honestly, we don't care.
I wouldn't say "love;" tolerate is a better word, though the patience is wearing thin.
Agree!
I agree that mindless trump support is..mindless. I can't bring myself to be very judgemental because the left has a nearly exactly proportional number of delusional buy in for their candidates. You have to dunk on both sides of the delusion before it has any consistency.
What dem candidates that millions of folks have ebulliently supported show the same level of total corruption and bullshit? In my circles, everyone felt like Biden was Too Damn Old even before we knew how compromised he was. People weren't stoked about Harris until she was the candidate, and even then it was more like 'she's fine.' People love AOC, I guess?
I both think you are ignoring a sizeable cohort of democrat party voters who are nutcase level supporters, and overestimating the number of zealous trump fans.
Your statement on the feelings around Biden and Harris are mirrored in my experience with how people feel about trump. Its not rabid Fandom or mindless support. They just prefer it/him to the blue side. Most of my cohort was pulling for DeSantis to win in a primary.
But preferring trump to the blue side means being ok with him saying he wants to be an authoritarian, using his office to punish people critical of him, and being ok with him handing appointments and contracts to cronies. It is not the same.
Ah yes, the old "you can't really be smart or a good person if you dont hold my political opinions" stance.
That's always a reasonable take.
You are trying to both sides the parties when they are not the same in terms of the level of corruption they are enabling and the dangerous ways they are approaching our democracy. I'm sorry it hurts your feelings to have it pointed out that the bad behavior democratic voters reluctantly put with with from their party is of a far lesser magnitude than the bad behavior the republican voters are putting up with from their 'team.'
Translation: "But Trump is different, because the allegations against him are TRUE, and the allegations against Biden are FALSE.
What allegations against biden? That he's senile? he is. That his son is a fucking mess? he is.
The Epstein stuff has actually shown how false it is to say that Trump supporters are "cultists." If Trumpers are cultists, one would think that they would say, "Ok well Trump says there's nothing to the Epstein stuff, time to move on. Of course, Trumpers are very largely not falling in line. Kind of odd for a cult 😂.
I disagree. Cult leaders don't wield absolute authority over their minions; their power comes through manipulation, which requires an understanding of those minions. Lots of Trumpanzees are conspiracists, but Trump's admonition to ignore all this goes directly against that.
You can get a conspiracy theorist to discard facts, because most people don't really care about facts anyway. However, when Trump says, "Will you people move off the Epstein stuff already?", he's telling them to discard their entire worldview, and that's something people are VERY attached to. Some of them will do it, sure, but some of them won't.
Exactly. All this shows is that Trump supporters are more riled up about their Epstein conspiracy theory than they are about tariff policies and health care... which doesn't speak well of them.
Perhaps any direct involvement or adjacency to sex trafficking young girls is a line in the sand for some of them, cult followers though they may be. Grabbing adult women by the pussy is one thing, but assaulting young girls, no way. And not all of the MAGAs are booing Trump, maybe just half.
I think the community here does a fair job of dunking on the crazies of both sides. There’s more far lefty types though but that seems fair. I appreciate them because they help me understand the other side. And while I may be a cunt sometimes, hopefully I can do the same from the right.
But yeah the moment you ignore crazies on your own side to just shout down the other side you kind of lose.
Like all this Epstein nonsense on the right. Absolute insanity and they’re all acting like morons.
I don’t feel like an idiot. I never cared about Epstein. I cared about immigration and the economy. One of those is going pretty well and the other remains to be seen but I think it’s a long game and I’m hopeful. Then there’s the Gaza thing and basically the whole Middle East and that’s going pretty well. Don’t care too much about Ukraine but I hope that’ll be turning around soon.
The entire Epstein drama isn’t even on my list. I never expected all these names or the truth. Did he kill himself or get Clintoned? Did he have dirt on all the rich people or not? Is there a trove of info that has been and is still being hidden? I’m quite agnostic on these issues. I don’t know and I never cared. It would be cool to definitively know, but I’m not gonna go insane over it like some other schmucks.
Also love y’all too. Trump 2028. 🇺🇸
Damn, I haven't been following the news, good to hear the gaza thing and the whole middle east is going well.
I mean relative to how it has been. We’ve been kicking the shit out of some really bad people. And we got those Abraham accords going. The region is slowly turning away from anti west sentiments and Israel/Jew hatred, through carrots or sticks it doesn’t matter. Peace through strength is a thing. The worst action made by the US in the region in recent memory is the horribly executed Afghanistan withdrawal.
If you’d like to provide a substantive argument to the contrary I’d love to hear it fella.
My guy, you just completely shifted the goal posts on what you said. Listen up chief, if you want to have real conversation why don’t you stick to what you said?
If you have no job, no car, and a shitty apartment that you’re about to be evicted from, you’d say you’re doing pretty bad right?
So if you get a decent job, pay your bills and are managing to save for a car, relatively speaking, you’re doing pretty good right?
I listed several things, the Middle East was only one of them. Just because I didn’t write a novel on that one point doesn’t mean I’m moving goal posts so step off slugger.
Or, as I suggested, give me a counter point.
You have 100% moved the goal posts from the first comment I responded to and your analogy is completely off the mark. The Middle East is in no way back on its feet after a rough patch. At best, it’s a drug addict mid-divorce, barely functioning, with things poised to either get slightly better, spiral further, or collapse entirely
Regardless of your politics Israel is objectively in the midst of a multi-front war with a humanitarian crisis on its border. Their prime minister faces multiple domestic legal challenges and perpetual war is the only thing keeping him alive politically. European allies are critical both behind the scenes and publicly as support among their populace for Israel reach historic lows. In the U.S., the political fringes on both the left and right are openly antisemitic in a way not seen in recent memory. Among younger Americans, support for Israel as an idea is vanishing. Even if you concede some tactical gains, it’s delusional to claim the overall situation is “going well.”
Syria is in the middle of a chaotic power vacuum with a former Al-Qaeda jihadist taking nominal control of the country. In March of this year government forces displaced thousands of Alawites leaving dozens dead. The Druze and Bedouin clashed in areas that Israel laid claim to through air strikes. While in the north the Turks and Kurds continue to threaten one another.
The US-Israeli strikes on Iran were an escalation of tensions. Yet another country bombed by the Americans with little to show for the cost in soft power and actual cash. Iran faces crippling inflation and massive political unrest, wonderful things in a country of 90 million. Nothing to see here.
Yemen continues to attack ships in the Red Sea and we don’t even need to get into the communication and intel blunders of the US High command. Houthi forces have agreed to a fragile ceasefire. 10-12% of global trade goes through these waters. Seems cool.
Hezbollah is weakened in Lebanon and it remains to be seen who will replace them. When has that ever gone wrong?
Egypt continues to block Palestinians from entering through the border. God knows what will happen in the next few months.
You can continue to suck off MBS and the Gulf States as you see fit.
I think you and I have different definitions of going well. Or let me know if you want to move the goal posts again.
> I listed several things, the Middle East was only one of them. Just because I didn’t write a novel on that one point doesn’t mean I’m moving goal posts so step off slugger.
you know you sound like a total fucking idiot, right? like, that's part of the act?
it's a good bit: "I'm gonna say something so unbelievable dumb, and when someone calls me on it, I'll go 'whatever bro, that was in a LIST of stuff, I don't see you refuting the entire list, so I'm actually the winner, SUCK IT'".
funny stuff
What part of the Gaza thing is going well?
Forgive me if I’m wrong but as far as I’m aware the terrorist elements there have largely been eradicated.
If you’re more concerned with the ongoing humanitarian crisis, call me a monster but I don’t much care. From what I can tell the population was not wholly innocent. In their actions or morals or beliefs. So if the terrorists in Gaza could have exterminated the entirety of Israel they would have done so and surely been largely celebrated by their people. I’m not going to shed a tear about what happens when you fuck around and find out.
Yes, the humanitarian crisis, you dolt. I guess the babies that have been born in Gaza since October 7 fucked around and now they are finding out, huh? And if the terrorist elements have been largely eradicated as you say, why are they still bombing and starving the civilians? The terrorists didn't begin to have the ability to exterminate Israel.
You are a monster. To have only empathy for the babies who tragically died on October 7 and none for the babies of Gaza makes you one. Go fuck yourself.
If the people of Gaza wanted that to end they would have revolted against the terrorists that caused it. But instead they celebrated the men that went into Israel and personally, violently, with purpose and intent, to rape and murder civilians and kidnap civilians.
Israel has shipped countless tons of humanitarian aid into Gaza. The purpose is not to kill or starve civilians. If you want to try to tell me that a missile strike into a building housing civilians that was previously warned to leave,
is the same as a group of men videoing themselves raping and mutilating and killing women and children at a music festival in a surprise attack, then YOU are the monster.
I do not want dead civilians. But I want much more that the problem is absolutely crushed now to save from issues later. The situation in the Middle East has been allowed to fester too long and it should have dealt the violent hand of justice decades ago. It’s the only thing the region will understand or respect as we drag them into the modern world.
I guess you were a big fan of the extermination of Native American tribes too.
I’m with you. My priority is destroying Hamas and I’m unbothered by the supposed humanitarian crisis. Hamas has chosen to wage war from behind their women and children, and that means their women are going to die with them.
I can’t tell if you’re mocking me.
But very bluntly yes. Any and all civilian deaths are directly linked to Hamas actions. Israel IS trying to minimize casualties while Hamas tries to maximize them for strategic political and optical gain.
And in the end, another peoples civilians are not as important as your own.
Any sane nation would prioritize their own people over others, especially if it is a wartime scenario.
Hamas prioritizes no one but themselves. Hamas is evil and there is no equivalency.
Not mocking you. I sincerely agree. Hamas has given the entire nation of Israel two choices: 1) be destroyed, or 2) destroy Palestinian women and children in order to destroy the Hamas combatants who deliberately hide among them.
Both choices are awful, but Israel must take the second one in order to survive.
Yep, you’re a monster! Congrats. 👹
Gaza is going well? Anti-constitution 2028?
2028 is a joke.
And I’ve already talked about the Gaza thing here scroll up and find it. I assure you you’ll be mad that I don’t care about Gazan babies or whatever
oh
So, not a Trump supporter or even a Republican/Conservative.
But here's the challenge you face when you say they're being taken as idiots.
By 2026, the entirety of anyone under 30's voting experience is going to be Biden and Trump.
Meaning, the only Democratic term they probably remember will be one where Democrats were LITERALLY taken as fucking idiots while a feeble minded old man was used as a puppet while a shadow cabinet ran the country.
Second, if you're not an amateur political wonk and only care about kitchen table politics (e.g. how much does butter cost and how much of my check is taken in taxes), Trump is the only recent candidate that's delivered on any of that.
Given, some economists are saying he'll wreck everything by doing it...but...every Trump term has significantly reduced tax complexity and tax rates for most people. This one is looking to be the same.
I mean I find the guy loathsome...but he just keeps insisting on giving me more of my money back. Like a lot. And it's really hard not to think about that when it comes time to vote. I'm always like "damnit...I guess this fucker's going to increase my taxes and I don't really know for what benefit cause I sure never see it" when I do vote democrat. And you have to be pretty damned liberal to swallow that.
Lastly, there's a huge chunk of people who really are freaked out by the illegal immigration numbers. And they don't believe you when Democrats assure them these are jobs they don't even want (Sam Harris was repeating this meme this week).
And Trump has delivered on this. There's no disagreement that illegal immigration has slowed to a trickle from the flood it was before. People may be critical of the methods. They may be right. But with the lack of any alternative, Trump supporters are going to point to that and say "He got it done. What's your plan?". As of today, Democrats plan is "do nothing, just let the illegal immigration go unchecked and don't enforce the law." which doesn't seem to be an acceptable answer for these voters.
So, if I try to see it from their perspective...it's probably that you can call them fucking idiots all you want as they go to the bank to cash their return checks and apply for jobs that are no longer being filled by illegal immigrants.
Trump "delivered" on the economy? None of his policy proposals are implemented yet and it will take years to see the effects. The only exception, that is implemented, is that we have much higher tariffs on imports than before. When these policies are fully implemented, we'll be spending a record amount of GDP on servicing debt, millions of people will lose their health insurance, and yes some wealthy people will pay less taxes. TBD how the tariffs will go but I'm not optimistic.
If only there were some word for people who don't understand how policy and economics work and can't be bothered to learn about it... let's go with "idiots."
Ok, look. Everything you just said may be true. But it's "blah blah blah acronym blah economics blah" to the overwhelming majority of voters. They don't care. They don't read the Wall Street Journal or listen to economic wonk podcasts. They don't care about the debt (each party just increases it every term), etc.
What he delivered on was simplifying tax returns and increasing tax returns for most people.
Yes. "Rich people got more". Sure. But the child tax credit, dependent care, the raised standard deduction....these benefited everyone. Just to name a few.
Most households in the US received 1k or more from the changes (tax policy center). I think I saw close to 4 or 5k myself.
This rolled the changes forward and added more. I expect to increased returns from SALT, raised mortgage interest cap, and increased child and dependent care credits.
I'm agreeing with you. But the problem is you're talking past people who are voting.
I pointed out that the average voter doesn't care about a bunch of wonky economic forecasting. They just look at how their taxes are easier and their returns higher and Trump delivered on that.
You replied with a bunch of wonky economic forecasting.
That's exactly my point. You are trying to say that it's wrong to call Trump voters idiots and also that Trump supporters don't understand the economy because it's apparently too wonkpilled to, y'know, try to understand what the law that just passed is actually going to do.
I agree with your diagnosis that most voters don't understand policy, I'm just saying they don't understand policy *because they are idiots*. It isn't smart politics to call them idiots in public, but they are.
> I'm just saying they don't understand policy *because they are idiots*.
I don't think it's unique to the right. It's generally true of all adults. Left, right, whatever.
People are concerned with their day to day lives. Getting kids to school, working overtime, getting to the doctor or dentist, baseball games, track meets.
Whether the intersection they take to work is going to be backed up because of the road construction going on. Grocery shopping. What's for dinner.
They just don't care enough about the rest to find time in their day for it. And it's not something we prioritize in our education systems...so they don't have that base of knowledge they may have on other topics.
There's also interesting trends in economic knowledge like it increases significantly with age....implying it's probably not just a matter of economic status or education level.
So, where we diverge is when I see the overwhelming majority of the population is ignorant about something, I stop short of attributing that to an inherent and fixed quality of being too dumb to grasp it.
Either they are not dumb, but the topic is exceptionally hard (differentiating between idiocy and requiring a very high intelligence) or they are not dumb, but ignorant.
And again, economic ignorance is not unique to Conservatives or Republicans.
The left have their dumb ass economic policies they won't let go too. Like rent control...one of the very few economic polices for which there is consensus from left and right economist that it increases housing cost, decreases housing quality, and generally makes your city worse off overall.
"Taken for idiots" maybe has to do with the level of enthusiastic "hang on every word" level of support among the Trump base who ALSO was 100% convinced he would go through with his promises, especially on Epstein.
Biden had virtually no die hard supporters, and therefore almost nobody who thought he was going to save the world. Dem-aligned media hyping him as the next FDR was a total astroturf, virtually no voters really believed it.
Do you think Trump has lowered the price of butter, or lowered your taxes? Neither of those things are true.
Here you go:
https://www.bls.gov/charts/consumer-price-index/consumer-price-index-average-price-data.htm
They dropped in his first term. Started to climb back up by the end. Then hit a 10 year peak middle of Biden's term. Started going down towards the end. Started climbing a small amount again. Probably tariff nonsense.
Regardless. What people remember are the peaks and valleys. And if all you remember is Trump and Biden (voters under 30), you'll remember a 10 year low during Trump and a 10 year high during Biden.
W.r.t. taxes. My taxes have 100% gone down. And they were simplified for most households by increasing the standard deduction, which most people take.
The TCJA almost doubled the standard deduction. By 2022, the number of itemized returns dropped from 31% to 9% of households. 65% of households saw a reduction in their tax burden.
https://taxpolicycenter.org/taxvox/three-numbers-know-about-tcja-2018
https://taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/how-did-tcja-change-standard-deduction-and-itemized-deductions
So, to answer the question....butter was cheaper and taxes lowered/simplified under Trump vs Biden.
The tax changes are definitely from Trump. Food prices...I have my doubts any president has significant influence over this in their term. Lag effects of policy, other externalities, etc. But that's not how the typical voter thinks of these things.
Why are you acting like Trump hasn't been president for 7 months? Truly bizarre comment.
To be fair, a lot of them are total fucking idiots. Maybe not the ones listening to this show, but a lot of of them.
As an independent and one-time Trump voter (2024. Biden 2020, 3rd party 2016), I couldn't care less about Epstein and didn't find much to disagree with in this episode.
I also do not give a shit about Epstein anymore. He was a horrible horrible person and he died in jail. And Ghislane is also in jail. There's no "client list". I'm sick and tired of hearing about it.
what was the other option in the election?
did the libs release any epstein files?
(i dont mean that as a defence for trump)
obviously any repub defending trump at this point is retarded.
but smug libtards needs to remember you had 4 years to release the lists.
Ghislaine Maxwell’s arc is interesting. She had been a socialite in the UK, but when her father died, his empire collapsed and the extent of his financial misdeeds came to light. There wasn’t much money left, and it was tied up in lawsuits and investigations. It’s hard to be a broke socialite.
Across the Atlantic is a rich guy she falls in with. I always read her involvement as being enamored with him, and he can support her lifestyle, but there is no real romantic relationship to be had, because of her Tanner stage. So she became basically his procuress. An interesting, middle age woman with a British accent would be great for that, since the girls would be more at ease with her than a large, apparently very odd, man.
The actual facts of Epstein’s crimes and life are so terrible and fantastic, why does it need more to it? Clearly he was an excellent liar and manipulator, and must have been capable of being charming. He gets a job at Dalton when he only graduated high school. There were, unsurprisingly, reports that he was a bit creepy with female students. He gets fired, and charms his way into a job at Bear Stearns. I believe he got it through a student’s parent, but even if he didn’t, many were part of the same world.
Unfortunately I think the story is pretty banal - guy was a monster, but people were seduced by the lifestyle. Rich dilettante uses his money to buy access to interesting events, meet interesting people, give money to charities and research. The charity people and researchers now will gladly take his call and tell him how great he is! People see an opportunity to get close to that wealth and supposed power, overlook his crimes, perhaps justifying it to themselves. “He’s done terrible things, but he’s giving money to this important charity I run! Money to fund research.” Or it’s like…”what? You are inviting me to your private island on your jet? Sure!”
What I want to know is how he made money? He could have made a lot at Bear Stearns, but if it was private jet/island money, it would have been something we know about - maybe he was allocated shares in an IPO of a company that became huge, but Bear was more a Fixed Income shop. He did he go from getting fired to “advising” Lex Wexner. I believe he embezzled from Wexner, but what got him to the point that he was 1) in Lex Wexner’s circle and 2) Wexner thought he should be his money manager. You can’t embezzle unless you have been given control of assets! It’s not like he had a track record as a financial advisor at which to point. Even if Wexner met him by chance and thought “This guy has promised! I will give him a shot,” you would start with a small amount and not sign over power of attorney.
He had to have some sort of blackmail on Wexner, right? If Epstein was that good a money manager, he would have had more clients.
Ghislaine’s story really influenced my parenting. I watched some Netflix documentary about Epstein when my kids were really little, and I was like, OMG, people who grow up with money and lose it will become monsters just to regain their former status back. 😬 so I was like, I can NEVER let these kids get used to fancy things. So far this parenting philosophy has also saved me a lot of money.
Fortunately I never had that problem as a child. Dodged a bullet.
This is what I tell myself in the mirror after looking at my bank account. "This is good, actually, because your kids won't lose money and aide a sex trafficking billionaire"
Hahaha dude, you are giving your kids the gift of resilience.
Thank god I grew up poor, right?
Meh. Monsters are monsters. Monsters that grow up poor will do monstrous things to get rich and monsters that grow up rich and lose it will do monstrous things to get it back.
Ghislaine Maxwell is the daughter of Robert Maxwell, a multimillionaire who died under suspicious circumstances back in the 90s. He was suspected to be a corporate psychopath and there is some evidence he psychologically and emotionally abused Ghislaine; it's also speculated he may have physically and sexually abused her. There are also stories of her recruiting young women for her father at college. I think Epstein was someone she was comfortable with because of his familiarity - another corporate psychopath who would look after her if she did what he wanted. There's no doubt she is a very sick sociopathic person too.
Robert Maxwell was widely acknowledged to be an Israeli asset.
Jeffery Epstein is widely believed to have been a Israeli asset.
Wonder what connects the pair.
Antisemitism?
Robert Maxwell was an Israeli asset. This is widely accepted in the UK media after revelations in Helen Lewis's magazine Private Eye.
Wildly enough just because Jewish people or Israel is involved in something murky doesn't make the exposure of such antisemitic.
But good work on tossing the term at me. We are rapidly approaching an age when the Holocaust and antisemitism will count for very little in the general public because of it's constant abuse.
Alphonse, I know we have our spatty moments, but I wasn't being entirely serious!
I know the Maxwell part of it. I would argue that the assumption that Epstein is in a similar boat (no pun intended) has a slight whiff...
Okay, I apologise. However I don’t think Epstein being an asset is ridiculous in the slightest. Both in his life and death there are just too many oddities to be hand-waved away.
A random civilian with that many high level contacts, an intelligence agency would be insane NOT to try and turn him.
It’s an open secret that Dennis Rodman is a CIA asset due to his North Korea contacts. Wouldn’t be surprised if George Clooney and other celebs who do international charity work or a lot of activities abroad are in with at least one alphabet agency. It’s silly to act like Epstein is unusual in this regard.
What ever happened to the "he belongs to intelligence" thing?
I believe there is far more evidence supporting Maxwell than Epstein. I believe the Epstein claim came from an anonymous Trump I admin leak, which was likely Steve Bannon, or Epstein himself.
Rich guy who seems to know everyone, and has so many skeletons isn’t a terrible source for an intelligence agency to cultivate, but he was always rather flashy and a braggart. Occasionally being a useful source of information is believable, but you’d want to keep him at a distance.
This has always been my read on him. I spent many years in the east coast private school world and saw my share of dime store Epsteins. Expensive prep schools are easy marks for charming bullshitters looking for quick access to the rich and famous.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/how-did-jeffrey-epstein-make-his-money/
Wait did Jesse break up with his girlfriend?
Sounds like it!!! I rushed here to see who else caught that. I just want Jesse to be happy :-(
He's such a catch! I hope he finds someone wonderful.
Me too! He has a really good heart, and he's so tall!! I want him to meet a nice Jewish girl and have a cute family ASAP.
Or maybe an Arab one for good measure
What did he say? I’m re-listening now because I must have missed it.
He mentions during the housekeeping segment that he's "unfortunately had to dip a toe back into the apps lately" and then makes clear he's talking about dating apps
Thank you for that. Poor Jesse.
Not at all. He’s just growing the polycule.
… more of a stable, wouldn’t you say?
Hippocule??
Equintuple!
Stop teasing me! Ugh the dream to join the Singal polycule. He would attract the most based bisexual women.
“It’s complicated”
"... No it's not, just do the dishes Jessie"
👋🏼
Time to gear up the blocked and reported personals again. Someone on here must be an eligible bachelorette.
It’d be funny if we organized as a community to find him a girlfriend.
He was tired of her leaving hoof prints on the sofa.
(distant whinnying sound)
😢
I was so sad to hear that! It seemed like they had been together for a while.
It seems like most believe that Jessie broke up with his girlfriend. Somehow I immediately assumed it was the other way around.
I think she started dating Klay Thompson.
Personal relationships can sometimes escalate and also dissolve quickly, enough that the terms girlfriend / boyfriend / someone you are dating seriously, etc can be appropriate one week and not the next, or vice-versa. That said, based on the audio equivalent of reading-between-the-lines (maybe "listening between the sentences" ? ) I'm unconvinced whether Jesse's assertion of a girlfriend was a statement of fact, or a statement to deflect his podcast listeners from too much interest in his personal life. So maybe, or maybe not, there was a break-up.
I distinctly remember meeting a girl at the Christmas party who identified herself as Jesse’s girlfriend.
Thanks for your reply; and I accept your and AKI's actual evidence vs my speculation.
He definitely had a partner with him in London when he was at the The Studies Show live episode.
Thanks to you and Jmac for providing evidence that my speculation was wrong.
Missed opportunity with the fake passport discussion after defence are said to say it's to hide his Jewishness.
Jesse says the above.
Katie says, "Where is he travelling to, Gaza?"
Jesse fails to reply with, "Well we are told there are a lot of children there."
A shame.
The funniest aspect of this has been watching the American Libs do a total 180 on all the Epstein stuff, in the exact opposite direction as the Trump appointees in this episode. Previously, when only MAGA sorts were banging on about it, it was a sign of how deranged and weird they were… now, all the lib accounts and late-night hosts are giving it large about Trump’s ties to Jeff.
Something something Eurasia something.
Yes, the libs are totally the ones being irrational in this situation...not the most powerful man in the world suddenly not caring about an issue he partly ran on and has stirred up crazy conspiracy theories because he is 100% on the list.
I didn't say that wasn't funny as *well*...
The distinction would be that a large part of the "America Libs" (and especially the politicians and influencers who are most active on publicly promoting it) don't think there's anything there - the point of the "total 180" is to hoist Trump, et al. on their own petard.
If I see someone with a small blood stain on their clothes and they say nothing I will probably assume it is nothing significant.
If they walk in and say “This is nothing, I murdered no one. Stop looking, why are we still talking about this blood stain. If you ask me one more question I will never talk to you again… in fact I might sue.” Well then I am suspicious.
My reaction to the Epstein stuff was basically: 1. Yes! I’m glad they got that creep, 2. It is super frustrating that he died for the victims. 3. I wonder if it will look bad for Trump that he died on his watch given their connections. 4. Right wingers going on about the Clintons had him killed? Huh?
Where was the 180? I don’t think I ever saw anyone say that Epstein did nothing wrong or that info about him should be concealed.
Shitlibs are a herd animal.
Younger lefties, though, and not so young (I'm in my 40s), virtually everyone I know on the left was absolutely livid about Epstein and the Epstein file with names not getting released.
The idea this is of only concern to MAGA is preposterous. Alex Jones may have alluded to it early (although in exaggerated form and inferred there was child torture), but that was only a good reason to ignore it if you are the worst type of blue team shitlib.
I love the part of the Prince Andrew story where Virginia Guiffre talked about how he sweated all over her on the dance floor during one of their encounters while she was underage. Andrew counters by saying that due to an overload of adrenaline he experienced during his time in the Faulklands war, he is actually unable to sweat. The implication being that it must have been some other gross perv sweating on her. Of course online sleuths were able to find pictures of him sweating which was funny, as was the BBC interview he did about the allegations where he was (metaphorically) sweating like a pig.
There’s an issue with the “underage” claim, which Katie and Jesse made too - she was 17. In a country where the age of consent is *16*. That’s why she couldn’t accuse Prince Andrew of statutory rape. Ghislaine Maxwell wasn’t dumb, she brought to London a girl who was young but legal.
I wondered about the position of trust aspect of the consent laws. Apparently your mum being in charge of the police, courts and prisons doesn't count which seems like an oversight.
Ya’ll need to update those laws
Right now the Labour Party are trying to bring the *voting* age down to 16, so the chance of them also raising the age of consent is very small!
Do you want to come on my livestream some time and discuss “Britain: What Happened?!?!”
Everything has gone to crap since Churchill
I listen to Louise Perry and a father of one of the grooming victims said “I don’t want to sound like a conservative…” and I was like “wtf did conservatives do that was so bad you can’t give a full throated defense of your child?”
Hey, he had an alibi, remember? He was at Pizza Express!
In Woking!! Which was VERY unusual
Just got back from 10 blissful days at the mountain-ringed lake in Vermont, enjoying twice-daily swims and various types of boating—kayaking, standup paddle-boarding (I can’t pull that shit off, it turns out), and good old gasoline-powered motorboat cruising—and I’m simply beside myself here, Jesse: maple creemees are overrated???
Dude come on, a) that’s not even true of the regular-ass soft-serve-in-a-cone type creemees, but b) it’s *extremely* not true of the magnificent creemee coffee, which is exactly what it sounds like: basically an affogato but with delicious local maple soft serve instead of plain vanilla. There’s a sugarhouse like 2 minutes’ drive/10 minutes’ walk from the house we stay in and I had that for my coffee every single day (every day they were open anyway; Vermont isn’t exactly famous for long business hours, as anyone who’s been there for 36 hours could tell you). In the morning I just grabbed the dog, walked up the dirt road to the sugarhouse, and Christ alive was that a lovely way to start my day, like a cartoon of a bucolic northern New England idyll. Wouldn’t wanna make a jabit of those obviously but as a vacation morning routine it was just absolutely perfect. Maybe they’re less good in other parts of the state, I dunno, but my spot not too far from Stowe is doing it right!
Sweartagod man, I love Vermont; as goofy and crunchy as it is, it’s just a little miniature paradise. Could I live there? Eh, not until I’m at least 15 years older than I am now: just not enough going on up there in the least populous state in the country—for example most dinner places close at 8pm except in Burlington, and I don’t tend to hang around Burlington when I’m up there since I’m coming up from New York and the whole point is to be perched on the side of a mountain. But yeah, it’s a reeeeally lovely, special place, and even though the mountains are small (highest peak is Mt. Mansfield at 4,395’), it somehow doesn’t look or *feel* that way. (And I say this as a 10-year resident of Asheville/WNC where the peaks are much higher, fwiw.) Been going to Vermont for years and it still has that magic for me every time. Can’t wait to go back this winter for some skiing and snowmobiling (and creemee coffees), if not sooner.
As a dad, I would be remiss not to remind everyone on the thread to not forget upon seeing affogato on the menu anywhere to ask "What's the name of that dessert with the ice cream with coffee on top? Ah, it's so frustrating - it's on the tip of my tongue!" and then when someone says"Affogato?" you say "Me too! Let's try to remembero together!"
Who would have expected a paean to Vermont & maple affogatos for THIS episode? The unexpected life affirming beauty of this comment is exactly what I love about the BARPOD comment section. Smart people, unexpected insights.
Thank you!!
Vermont is full. Enjoy your vacation and go home, flatlander. The housing crisis is bad enough as it is.
(Thank you for spending all that money, obviously.)
The uncharacteristic eloquence is what makes me skeptical about this letter. Trump probably thinks an "enigma" is when someone shoots a bunch of water up your butt.
Trump's speech has degraded a ton over the years, he was a lot more articulate when he was younger.
Do you think it's cognitive decline, an intentional ploy to appeal to the lowest common denominator, or a little bit of both? I've heard of other politicians ostensibly "code switching," and going from talking and behaving like normal bureaucrats during day-to-day policy work, to acting buffoonish and insane when they're in the public eye.
Both are plausible but if it’s cognitive decline I think only a medical expert probably actually examining him could tell.
It’s not really like Biden where the whole world could see it just by looking at him.
With Trump, what’s a deliberate ploy, just general craziness or the product of aging is pretty much impossible to know.
My hunch, is the way of writing he’s adopted since becoming a politician has just become a habit & signature style, it’s now just natural.
There are clips of Trump correctly using the word enigma as recently as 2020.
Are you familiar with the concept of a joke
Yes, you made a joke about Trump not knowing the word "enigma". But he does know that word, so the joke doesn't work, sorry to be the one to break it to you.
What planet are you from? A joke does not have to be a verifiable statement of fact. I was being hyperbolic-- you know, when someone exaggerates something for dramatic or comedic effect.
He went to Wharton. His uncle is a genius.
Who taught the Unibomber!
My uncle is a pilot, but that doesn't mean I can fly a plane. /hj
Will Crémieux become a Prémieux?
Their inability to come even close to pronouncing this word correctly is baffling.
Please explain to an anglophone how it’s pronounced? Is it like crem-oh?
Cremm-yoo
I know!
I personally have never really cared about the Epstein story one way or another, but something I've always found poorly explained is why a lot of very wealthy and powerful people kept hanging around Epstein after his initial legal problems became public. Like, yes, he was rich, but, based on what's been said publicly about his assets, he wasn't *insanely* rich. E.g., Bill Gates' net worth was literally about 100 times greater than Epstein's -- he could fly on an ultra-fancy private plane and have his own private archipelago if he wanted to -- so why keep socializing with someone who has those sorts of legal problems?
Was Bill Gates offering?
Because famous people are exactly as stupid, self sabotaging, and loyal to friends as normal people are.
Sure, you could pay to start your own pedo island, but it will never be as good as the person who has lots of experience in the industry.
He was convicted on one count of soliciting a minor, who was on the older side of his victim age range. After that he went on to lean into giving money from foundations that he was involved with to scientists at MIT and other institutions, so maybe he didn't look like THAT bad of a guy to people. It was only after Julie K. Brown started looking into it, from 2016 on, that the details of how many victims there were, and how young they were, became more widely known.
What constitutes insanely rich? Besides his two private islands ($86m), he owned a mansion in Palm Beach ($12m), a ranch in New Mexico ($17m), an apartment in Paris($8.6m), and one of the largest private homes in Manhattan (+50m). He made hundreds of millions as a money manager for billionaires. He borrowed money and had dealings with Deutsche Bank and JP Morgan Chase, which have both paid out millions in settlements.
Isn't the simplest explanation for Epstein's death that he was given privacy to commit suicide?
He was already on suicide watch, and made a previous attempt, and was clearly ready to go.
So it wasn't about getting Ninja Jason Bond in and out, but rather just switching off the feed for a couple of minutes and informing him: "OK Mr Epstein, you have privacy..."
Or even him just being told nobody would intervene, and then the tape being subsequently doctored to put however was supposed to be watching in the clear.
#tinfoilhat
No, the easiest explanation is an underfunded prison system with overworked staff failed to stop it.
I have worked in 24 care facilities so the idea of staff screwing up because they fell asleep makes so much more sense than any conspiracy.
The NY/NYC prison system is notoriously underfunded and poorly staffed.
He was 66, he knew he'd never be a free man again.
Even with a very high profile prisoner? (genuine question)
I finally understand why there are so many painfully pedantic guys here in BARPodland. They learned it from Katie.
I disagree that this is the dumbest thing to break up MAGA. It’s hugely symbolic. Rich and powerful men have been abusing young girls since the dawn of time. (And isn’t the prosecution of Bolsonaro itself somewhat corrupt?)
The Clinton Kill List seems crazy now, but it will seem less crazy once Bill and Hillary are gone. The rigging of the 1960 election was also considered a kooky conspiracy theory until everyone involved was dead, and now it’s accepted by many historians as fact.
I don’t think the analogy works. That some ballots were stuffed has been common knowledge for a very long while, the degree to which it actually altered the outcome is very much contested & there’s no consensus that it did.
Multiple murders of which the cover up would require a vast conspiracy in multiple jurisdictions (I’m assuming people don’t think they murdered all these people in the same place) over a very long period of time, given Bill & Hilary are both apparently long running & wider ranging seriel killers, is another thing entirely.
My point is that no one takes crazy-sounding conspiracies about famous people seriously until they’re a thing of the past. While I doubt there’s an official “Clinton kill list,” it’s certainly not normal for one couple to be connected to so many suicides (especially the Tarmac guy).
"one couple" in this case being probably the most famous couple in the world circa 2000. they know a fuck ton of people. some of those people have died. that's it.
I can only repeat myself. The 1960 election isn’t a ‘crazy conspiracy’, there’s stuff we definitely know and then an argument over its extent and its impact on the outcome.
How do you know it’s not normal, a couple who’ve both had such wide ranging careers in public life will come into contact with far more people than average. If you started with a conspiratorial mindset and went through any major public figures life you could find all sorts of connections. And some of the Clinton stuff is totally batshit.
You’re reasoning appears to be nothing more then “there’s no smoke without fire”. If either one or both of them are involved with not one but multiple murders and there’s so far no evidence just conspiracy theorising, covering it up would involve a vast conspiracy.
If you want to give the credence that’s up to you 🤷🏼♂️
If somebody told me there was a Thatcher kill list I would find that crazy and I hate that rotting cunt.
UK politicians get a lot of hate, but aside from Harold Wilson being a Soviet agent, they don’t tend to get dragged in to these kinds of conspiracies.
The greatest flyer I ever saw was one for the Suicide Hotline with a picture of Jeffrey Epstein that said EPSTEIN DIDN’T KILL HIMSELF AND NEITHER SHOULD YOU.
People who make the distinction between hebephile and pedophile are my favorite people. They do so knowing full well this makes them look like a pedophile. But they still do it because words matter! 🫡
I dunno if I really believe in hebephilia. I may just not be able to imagine it with my non-perverted female brain but it seems to be that men (and the small number of women) who go after younger teens are not doing it because of physical attraction but mental ability. Essentially easier to manipulate,
Otherwise you could keep things legal fairly easily as women who look 14 when they are 18 are not that rare (especially if you are a millionaire).
I think it’s more to do with a pre-modern primal urge.
We created age of consent laws because we recognize pubescent young people are not equipped for the emotional fallout of sexual relationships — even though they are *sexually* mature.
But evolution doesn’t care about our feelings. The only fallout it’s concerned with is babies falling out of vaginas.
From evolution’s perspective, a reproductively-mature 15-year-old is the same as a reproductively-mature 23-year-old.
I think age of consent laws are valid and good. Just because nature thinks it’s a good idea for 15-year-olds to have sex doesn’t mean it is. Lots of natural things are harmful.
Hebephiles simple chose to embrace a harmful natural instinct. While this embrace is more common with men, it also seems quite common among attractive blonde school teachers. They stay banging a 14-year-old and convincing him to murder their husband.
That people genuinely find 15 year olds attractive is not what I am disputing but I find it hard to believe rather they also don't find 18/19/20 year olds attractive too. My understanding of paedophilia is it is *exclusively* an attraction to prepubescebt children. That's the problem, they are at war with themselves (if 'virtuous') and live miserably. If they found adults attractive too it wouldn't be as big an issue.
I find it hard to believe the brain draws a line at 16/17/18 and stops finding these girls attractive. It must be a more conscious preference.
Oh. I see what you mean. Yea. Good question.
Well, if we're going to get pedantic about definitions, we have to parse the different reasons why people abuse children. Not everyone who abuses children is a "pedophile" in the orientation sense; many abusers are addicts or have other impulse control disorders and prey on children because they can, not necessarily because they prefer children to adult women. And then there probably is a second category of men like Epstein, where part of the attraction is less physical than about manipulation and control.
But AFAIK the evidence does support that there are a category of people who are attracted to children as an orientation, and we know this because some of these guys find it deeply disturbing and would prefer to not be this way. And we also know that, for people who have this attraction, it usually comes with a particular age range.
So a) not all child sex abusers are hebe/pedophiles, b) we don't really know what Epstein's motivation was, c) hebe/pedophiles do exist whether or not Epstein was one.
I belive in peadophiles. I explained above but to reiterate here, I cannot see how you can be attracted to 14/15 year old teens and not 18/19 years olds when often times they are indistinguishable.
Either they are picking developmentally slow (physically) 15 year olds and they actually a paedophiles or they are picking post pubescent ones in which case its clearly less about physical attraction and more about emotional maturity.
I think it's a really important distinction, actually.
* Not a pedo!!
*no pedo 😅
Biologically speaking, and historically as well, the difference between puberty and pre-puberty is not some minor squabble.
That's not a justification, I just need to know what level of sicko I am dealing with here.
Yes. I’d say puberty was less a niggle with olden-day people. Muhammad married a 6-year-old and that didn’t negatively impact his cult’s growing marketshare at all. Not sure if you could get a pedo cult off the ground today.
we are told Mohammad waited until there was grass on the field, though, or until about Mary's age (or so we are told).
According to Hadith and Aisha’s own account, he married her at 6 and had sex with her at 9. I’d say that is firmly within the pre-pubescent pedo range. Most modern-day people scoff at boning 9-year-olds: https://sunnah.com/bukhari:5134
It would not require a "Bourne level" operation to get into the prison. A couple of bribes to prison guards. That's it.
Also, Jesse said it would require a "James Bourne" level of operation when he should have said JASON Bourne. I demand a correction.
James Bourne is Jesse's completely original super-spy creation coming soon to a theater near you.
Shut up, Dwigt!
I like the theory proposed on The Fifth Column that Epstein died of autoerotic asphyxiation, Carradine-style.
I was wondering if maybe he paid a guard to help him commit suicide? Would help explain the gap in the tape without a major conspiracy. The guard could have helped him get in position and then got out of there.
There are a lot of cameras that would have had to malfunction in that jail for a mysterious assassin to go completely unseen.
Why wouldn’t he? Because he’s an incredibly rich man with a lifetime of getting away with shit behind him and (potentially) a treasure trove of blackmail material.
(I am Devil’s Advocate-ing that, but I would guess that’s what believers would suggest.)
I agree that suicide is the most likely cause of death. Most conspiracies would require a staggering number of people to be involved, but not this one. Doesn't make it true, but it's not impossible.
I do user testing via compensated online survey. We occasionally get flooded with sign-ups by “new volunteers” who are clearly professional survey spammers from Africa. The responses always list a name that sounds like it was created by a random name generator where someone asked for the whitest, Mormon-sounding name possible. Like, “Jeremiah Michael” or “Trace Woodgrains.” Always include a Gmail address that is some combo of initial-name-string of numbers. They always self-identify as Black, usually male, age between 18 and 34, usually LGBTQ+. They say they are based in the US, but if I check the geodata they are typically in Nigeria or Kenya. It’s predictable enough that I trained my employee to profile and delete young Black, gay men with LDS-ass names. God help me if we ever do an actual ad campaign targeting Utah Pride’s BIPOC caucus.