I will be the one person who supports Jesse's discission not to share. Given the large audience of this podcast it is likely at lease one person would do something stupid and give the rest of the Premies a bad name.
If the proprietor reveals it themselves then I think it is fair for Jesse to link to the confirmation though.
I completely agree with you. At this point, it just comes across as sour grapes, and there’s always the crazies out there who will leave unhinged yelp reviews, and make everyone look bad.
Agree. Don't share the name of the business, it's tacky and it'll just vindicate the virtue-signalling dumbass who deplatformed Jesse. Like they said in the episode, the business owner probably WANTS this attention. So don't give it to him.
I agree. Nothing gained by telling us the name of the bar. It's information that can only be used poorly, either way--by cancellation /demonstration or by giving them more money.
Let the owner live with their decision, and we'll all move on.
Also, if you name the bar, it'll be a hero in its community for "standing up to hate, settler coolonialism, and trans genocide." Ignoring is often the best strategy.
Strongly agree - it’s fine for people not to go to his establishment, but sharing the name here could lead to randos calling the bar and harassing people and similar behaviour. Nothing good.
I don’t say this very often, but this time I agree with Jesse
about the bar… It can be very satisfying to feel morally superior. And I doubt it matters much economically in the end either way. So I think we should allow Jesse his sense of sanctimonious superiority. I strongly endorse it
If it were anyone else, that person would get hosed. Because it's Jesse and he's a nice guy, they won't (unless they out themselves) which is all the more crazy.
That excerpt was surprisingly moving. I hope Katie’s book does well and that she considers writing one on cancel culture next. I don’t want this period to get completely memory-holed and for everyone to forget just how much damage was done.
I think a lot of the commentary about "not treating the underlying cause" of the illness presupposes an actual soul that needs to be cleansed. Medicine is pretty clear. The soul is about 3.5 pounds, *extremely* fragile, and can be changed in very upsetting ways with chemicals or an icepick. I *really* like Katie's side of this interview, and she sold me on her book with it. I'll be picking up a copy tomorrow.
Being on a GLP-1 has convinced me that the underlying cause of my obesity is that my appetite is just naturally excessive. Kinda like how Katie has expressed that the underlying cause of her addiction is that her body just likes alcohol more than most people. Don’t see how you can address the underlying cause more directly than with medications that change that!
Sure, but I don’t think that discounts the idea that other people turn to alcohol or food to mask emotional pain or trauma (see: my 600 lb life, where most of the subjects are not only very physically unwell, but seemingly manufactured in incomprehensible conditions of dysfunction).
Jesse I was at a Jewish mom-and-pop grocery store recently in Chicago and they were selling these slow-release caffeine pills to take before fasts so you don’t get withdrawals!
There are 8 hour delayed release caffeine pills intended to be taken before bed.
Feels like it’s kind of violating the spirit of the fast… but apparently the Jewish perspective on that is “if god didn’t want us to exploit loopholes in his law, he wouldn’t have given us brains capable of finding them,” according to to a Judaism Stack Exchange post I saw once. I kinda love that.
Katie, my sister in Allah, you should already be an expert in Abrahamic fasts!
(leaving Islam and fasting for Ramadan only to marry an observant Jew who fasts is somehow funny to me - though it’s just one day a year now and frankly everyone seems to be drinking water and minding their own business)
as somebody who has prescribed a boatload of naltrexone, I haven't yet listened to the podcast, but I got a taste of it already. naltrexone should be started at 12.5 mg because it frequently induces panic at the usual starting dose of 50 mg. another odd characteristic is that a few of my patients have felt alone and really sought out closeness and contact with others. endorphin signaling and oxytocin are connected, and we see this behavior of contact comfort in lab rats.
Katie reports having a bad reaction to the usual dose which kept her drinking for another few years before she tried again. The best practice apparently needs updating.
What's the trigger for the panic reaction do you think? Just general anxiety increase or something less direct...like a sense of uneasiness from the dampened affect?
That’s interesting! I had to start at an even lower dose because it made me extremely lethargic. 3-5mg is the dose I can tolerate, closer to 3 honestly.
Occasionally people just don't tolerate. The dose of 3 mg is really unlikely to cause any blockade of alcohol driven reward and it will no precipitate opioid withdrawal. At 3 mg naltrexone supposedly can provide relief for stress by trafficking new opioid receptor to the cell surface that are more responsive to natural endorphin transmission, so it makes some feel better.
I haven’t gotten to this part of Katie’s book, but I know she talks about dissolving a 50mg tablet in water and slowly working up to a full dose.
Even if it isn’t totally blocking those receptors I do notice that I tend to not drink when I take my baby 3mg dose. Maybe just a psychological thing but it’s still helpful because I am drinking less.
Honestly, it might be that you have less dysphoria due to improved endorphin transmission, or something. Most homeopathic doses are complete nonsense, but low dose naltrexone actually does something. I also recommend the water thing. I know this sounds like Lee Iacocca telling you to buy a Chrysler but it might help to work with an addiction psychiatrist. Good luck.
I preordered (you're welcome) because I've been really curious about some anxiety-related things Katie has mentioned over the years on the podcast (beta blockers and anxiety of going over bridges) as being very similar to my own experience.
I've had a hell of a time with anxiety and strange physical symptoms over the past few years and maaaaaybe I can link the start of my anxiety journey on the 5-7 bottles of wine per week I was drinking during the worst months of the pandemic, and the years of Toronto drinking culture before that.
I really enjoy that Katie covers the idea that abstinence seems undesirable and impossible to people who over-use alcohol. The idea of never having a beer or wine again is basically a non-started for me, but the idea of mindfully asking myself if I need the 4th beer is very appealing. I just drink less now than I did a couple of years ago, so taking naltrexone doesn't seem necessary, but it makes me feel safer and less worried about the future that there is a real solution if I ever get back to problem-drinking territory.
Only about half-way through the book, but it's a good read so far!
Can you imagine being that bar owner, who in the second era of Trump, while our country is falling and our futures are being destroyed as planes crash in midair, feels "uncomfortable" with Jesse and a B&R crowd. The lack of perspective and the flagrant pussery is such that I need to see what the bar looks like, what the theme is, what the name is, and god willing, what he looks like. I think he has a paunch, a messenger bag and a resting frowny face.
Just picking up on something that was briefly mentioned - I really do think eating disorders are very similar to an addiction. The word for anorexia in German is a compound noun (of course) that literally translated means addiction to thinness. I don't think the thiness part is quite right, but I do think it is an addiction. "The Voice" as my brother and I called it is definitely a thing for anorexics.
One thing that was clear when I stopped drinking was how much other drinkers hated me for it! People automatically think “what! you think you are better than me?!” It also takes the permission structure away. Heavy drinkers surround themselves with heavy drinkers, which makes it seem normal.
The non-drinking part of your life is better when sober. The actual drinking is a hell or lot of fun until it isn’t. Parties are objectively better with alcohol.
I will be the one person who supports Jesse's discission not to share. Given the large audience of this podcast it is likely at lease one person would do something stupid and give the rest of the Premies a bad name.
If the proprietor reveals it themselves then I think it is fair for Jesse to link to the confirmation though.
I completely agree with you. At this point, it just comes across as sour grapes, and there’s always the crazies out there who will leave unhinged yelp reviews, and make everyone look bad.
Agree. Don't share the name of the business, it's tacky and it'll just vindicate the virtue-signalling dumbass who deplatformed Jesse. Like they said in the episode, the business owner probably WANTS this attention. So don't give it to him.
I was pro-share until I read your post. You're absolutely right.
I agree. Nothing gained by telling us the name of the bar. It's information that can only be used poorly, either way--by cancellation /demonstration or by giving them more money.
Let the owner live with their decision, and we'll all move on.
Also, if you name the bar, it'll be a hero in its community for "standing up to hate, settler coolonialism, and trans genocide." Ignoring is often the best strategy.
We couldn’t get it out of him last night at the meet up, either
Strongly agree - it’s fine for people not to go to his establishment, but sharing the name here could lead to randos calling the bar and harassing people and similar behaviour. Nothing good.
I agree, but there is a part of me that wishes I didn't because I would like to avoid the establishment.
I don’t say this very often, but this time I agree with Jesse
about the bar… It can be very satisfying to feel morally superior. And I doubt it matters much economically in the end either way. So I think we should allow Jesse his sense of sanctimonious superiority. I strongly endorse it
If it were anyone else, that person would get hosed. Because it's Jesse and he's a nice guy, they won't (unless they out themselves) which is all the more crazy.
That excerpt was surprisingly moving. I hope Katie’s book does well and that she considers writing one on cancel culture next. I don’t want this period to get completely memory-holed and for everyone to forget just how much damage was done.
The book is very good.
“It’s the holiest Jewish holiday…”
“Is it Black Friday?!”
Katie is quick.
Jesse responding “Jesus Christ” was the perfect cherry on top of this exchange.
They have amazing chemistry
The comedic reflexes of a scorpion.
Give us the name! I promise not to review bomb or dox, just want to know where to avoid next time in Portland.
I think a lot of the commentary about "not treating the underlying cause" of the illness presupposes an actual soul that needs to be cleansed. Medicine is pretty clear. The soul is about 3.5 pounds, *extremely* fragile, and can be changed in very upsetting ways with chemicals or an icepick. I *really* like Katie's side of this interview, and she sold me on her book with it. I'll be picking up a copy tomorrow.
Being on a GLP-1 has convinced me that the underlying cause of my obesity is that my appetite is just naturally excessive. Kinda like how Katie has expressed that the underlying cause of her addiction is that her body just likes alcohol more than most people. Don’t see how you can address the underlying cause more directly than with medications that change that!
Sure, but I don’t think that discounts the idea that other people turn to alcohol or food to mask emotional pain or trauma (see: my 600 lb life, where most of the subjects are not only very physically unwell, but seemingly manufactured in incomprehensible conditions of dysfunction).
Can the primo who booked the bar just tell us the name and put an end to the suspense?
Jesse I was at a Jewish mom-and-pop grocery store recently in Chicago and they were selling these slow-release caffeine pills to take before fasts so you don’t get withdrawals!
If you can’t fast without something you have a problem.
This feels like cheating 😆
I use caffeine suppositories. Perfectly kosher and not cheating....
Ok… but the fast starts the night before so isn’t that going to keep you up?
There are 8 hour delayed release caffeine pills intended to be taken before bed.
Feels like it’s kind of violating the spirit of the fast… but apparently the Jewish perspective on that is “if god didn’t want us to exploit loopholes in his law, he wouldn’t have given us brains capable of finding them,” according to to a Judaism Stack Exchange post I saw once. I kinda love that.
maybe it’s a delayed release…
Katie, my sister in Allah, you should already be an expert in Abrahamic fasts!
(leaving Islam and fasting for Ramadan only to marry an observant Jew who fasts is somehow funny to me - though it’s just one day a year now and frankly everyone seems to be drinking water and minding their own business)
I am moving away from Portland at the end of the month… but I really want to know the name of this restaurant group so I can not go to it
as somebody who has prescribed a boatload of naltrexone, I haven't yet listened to the podcast, but I got a taste of it already. naltrexone should be started at 12.5 mg because it frequently induces panic at the usual starting dose of 50 mg. another odd characteristic is that a few of my patients have felt alone and really sought out closeness and contact with others. endorphin signaling and oxytocin are connected, and we see this behavior of contact comfort in lab rats.
Katie reports having a bad reaction to the usual dose which kept her drinking for another few years before she tried again. The best practice apparently needs updating.
So it drives you to snuggle?
What's the trigger for the panic reaction do you think? Just general anxiety increase or something less direct...like a sense of uneasiness from the dampened affect?
My guess is endorphin blockade removes a brake on panic.
Has anyone lost significant weight on naltrexone (more than you would expect to lose just quitting drinking)?
A couple have, usually it would help somebody drop a few pounds over a year. Not a GLP1 effect
That’s interesting! I had to start at an even lower dose because it made me extremely lethargic. 3-5mg is the dose I can tolerate, closer to 3 honestly.
Is that something you’ve seen before?
Occasionally people just don't tolerate. The dose of 3 mg is really unlikely to cause any blockade of alcohol driven reward and it will no precipitate opioid withdrawal. At 3 mg naltrexone supposedly can provide relief for stress by trafficking new opioid receptor to the cell surface that are more responsive to natural endorphin transmission, so it makes some feel better.
I’m hoping to titrate up slowly.
I haven’t gotten to this part of Katie’s book, but I know she talks about dissolving a 50mg tablet in water and slowly working up to a full dose.
Even if it isn’t totally blocking those receptors I do notice that I tend to not drink when I take my baby 3mg dose. Maybe just a psychological thing but it’s still helpful because I am drinking less.
Honestly, it might be that you have less dysphoria due to improved endorphin transmission, or something. Most homeopathic doses are complete nonsense, but low dose naltrexone actually does something. I also recommend the water thing. I know this sounds like Lee Iacocca telling you to buy a Chrysler but it might help to work with an addiction psychiatrist. Good luck.
I preordered (you're welcome) because I've been really curious about some anxiety-related things Katie has mentioned over the years on the podcast (beta blockers and anxiety of going over bridges) as being very similar to my own experience.
I've had a hell of a time with anxiety and strange physical symptoms over the past few years and maaaaaybe I can link the start of my anxiety journey on the 5-7 bottles of wine per week I was drinking during the worst months of the pandemic, and the years of Toronto drinking culture before that.
I really enjoy that Katie covers the idea that abstinence seems undesirable and impossible to people who over-use alcohol. The idea of never having a beer or wine again is basically a non-started for me, but the idea of mindfully asking myself if I need the 4th beer is very appealing. I just drink less now than I did a couple of years ago, so taking naltrexone doesn't seem necessary, but it makes me feel safer and less worried about the future that there is a real solution if I ever get back to problem-drinking territory.
Only about half-way through the book, but it's a good read so far!
Can you imagine being that bar owner, who in the second era of Trump, while our country is falling and our futures are being destroyed as planes crash in midair, feels "uncomfortable" with Jesse and a B&R crowd. The lack of perspective and the flagrant pussery is such that I need to see what the bar looks like, what the theme is, what the name is, and god willing, what he looks like. I think he has a paunch, a messenger bag and a resting frowny face.
God, I can’t wait to read this book now that I know there’s a bunch of embarrassing shit in it.
yeah, I'm really interested in that as well. Katie is so funny, I expect some really good stories.
Just picking up on something that was briefly mentioned - I really do think eating disorders are very similar to an addiction. The word for anorexia in German is a compound noun (of course) that literally translated means addiction to thinness. I don't think the thiness part is quite right, but I do think it is an addiction. "The Voice" as my brother and I called it is definitely a thing for anorexics.
One thing that was clear when I stopped drinking was how much other drinkers hated me for it! People automatically think “what! you think you are better than me?!” It also takes the permission structure away. Heavy drinkers surround themselves with heavy drinkers, which makes it seem normal.
The non-drinking part of your life is better when sober. The actual drinking is a hell or lot of fun until it isn’t. Parties are objectively better with alcohol.