The person who runs it fucked up. I think the problem is that, say, teaching third graders about pronouns - that is fucked up. Being upset about it is not a moral panic.
Both conservatives and progressives are Batshit crezy and they are spurting each other on.
The lesson is that if the attorney general of Texas wants to protect kids his staff should ascertain all stories.
The person who runs it fucked up. I think the problem is that, say, teaching third graders about pronouns - that is fucked up. Being upset about it is not a moral panic.
Both conservatives and progressives are Batshit crezy and they are spurting each other on.
The lesson is that if the attorney general of Texas wants to protect kids his staff should ascertain all stories.
Non-political lessons on pronouns aren’t the thing being discussed. Read examples of how gender identity & pronouns are shown in these lessons. If it was all about parts of speech people would applaud the schools.
Here's why "teaching third graders about pronouns" – compelled speech – is evil: "consider this editorial from the LA Times about the Wi Spa affair, in which a “transwoman” (a man, in other words) stripped naked and went into the women’s section of a Korean spa, where many women and young girls were also entirely naked. According to eyewitness accounts, his penis was semi-erect as he lounged on the edge of a hot tub (he’s since been charged with indecent exposure). A woman complained to the reception staff, calling the man a man—which, incredibly, was regarded as a serious infraction.
This editorial doesn’t make a sensible argument, albeit couched in confusing language; it simply makes no sense. That’s clear when you edit it to replace gender-based pronouns by sex-based ones, and have the guts to state the consequences of what you’re advocating for:
“The rights of transgender people to act in accordance with their gender identity is fortunately gaining acceptance in many corners—including at the U.S. Supreme Court, which just last week handed a major victory to transgender students seeking to use the schools bathrooms of their choice,”
becomes:
“The rights of trans-identified people to force everyone else to pretend they are the sex they are not are being imposed by many authorities—including the U.S. Supreme Court, which just last week enabled students of one sex to force themselves into school bathrooms supposedly reserved for students of the other.”
Similarly,
“There is no doubt that Wi Spa did the right thing in defending the right of a transgender customer to be nude in the women’s area, even though the sight of male-appearing genitalia discomfited at least one female customer, who complained at the front desk,”
becomes:
“This paper applauds Wi Spa for siding with a man who committed indecent exposure in front of naked women and girls in a space supposedly reserved for women and girls, even though the sight of a man’s genitalia discomfited at least one of the women who had just been victimised by him.”
Humans have a cognitive ability called sex pattern recognition. It’s a skill that most children acquire early, and females have been shown to have a greater accuracy at it than males.
Any school that puts a priority on teaching children to deny what their eyes/brains tell them is truth - to align with a political view that one’s gender identity, which sounds nothing more than “the sex stereotypes I’m comfortable with” - is doing harm to children.
In the UK the NHS hospitals seem to have sex segregated floors for patients. People are accustomed to this. Yet NHS hospitals changed that to allow anyone that says they’re a woman to be placed on a woman’s floor. Sounds nice and inclusive until a woman was raped during a hospital stay by a trans identified male patient (MTF). The woman’s claims weren’t taken seriously because she was told “there was no male patient on the floor.” A rape victim is gaslit by a hospital telling her the man who raped her was a woman (in UK law rape is crime that can only be perpetuated by men, sexual abuse is a different crime, is my understanding).
Teaching children not to trust what their brains are telling them is true by the cognitive process of sex pattern recognition is setting up a generation of kids for a lifetime of manipulation. It’s indoctrination of kids, far more heinous than some person with a Twitter account falling for a story on furries.
During the Satanic Panic people were jailed, some for decades, for implausible, seemingly impossible crimes. Despite years of investigating, the FBI was unable to find any evidence to support notion that a vast network of Satanists were abusing children & sacrificing newborns.
QAnon is an echo of the Satanic Panic, the idea that child trafficking is going on everywhere, that children are being held captive in underground bunkers.
That children are being taught unsubstantiated theories about gender and sexuality, that public schools are hiding pupils' social transitions from their parents, supplying them with clothes from a 'transition closet', that 13 year old children can obtain puberty blockers without parental consent in California--these are things which are happening, which are documented by many legitimate journalists.
LoT re-posts videos, she's curating the stuff, not making it up. Should she have questioned this submission, not posted it? Yes, she shouldn't have.
If my autistic daughter is seduced by the Trans Church cult at school and decides she’s a boy, it’s a violation of federal law for her teacher to tell me about it. Yes, I wish this was right wing propaganda BS.
As a mom of 2 high schoolers and friend to many moms, I have no doubt that there is a lot of pressure on kids to be anything but "cis." Gender ideologues have kids constantly policing gender norms. I was a lot more open-minded a few years ago, but watching what my lesbian daughter has been subjected to has been eye-opening. She has been called a genital fetishist. She has been told she must be a boy. After years of this, she is starting to believe it. Trans "girls" who were boys just a few minutes ago have pressured her to date them in a way that echoes every date-rapey tactic I had to fend off as a young woman. You can pretend this is a moral panic, but given the potential lifelong consequences of this whole project, parents have good reason to panic. And if you're old enough to remember recovered memories and the Satanic Panic, you will have no doubt about the fallibility and gullibility of psych and medical authorities.
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with panicking over men trying to gaslight young lesbians into having sex with them. It’s rape culture. No better than conservative Christians trying to coerce gays & lesbians into heterosexual relationships (“just try it!”) back in the 80s. It’s regressive & wrong. One of my oldest friends was a tomboy in middle school that later came out as lesbian, and I get angry thinking that a generation of young kids are being told that not adhering to sex stereotypes means they can’t possibly be the sex they were observed & recorded at birth. It’s progressive homophobia. As Ben Appel said in Newsweek, the message being sent is effectively: “Would you rather have a trans daughter or an effeminate gay son?"
Said by someone who I’ll guess is not a parent. When you hear about states like California taking kids away from parents based on what a school says about a kid’s gender, you start to worry about whether it could happen in your state.
She's entitled to her opinion. I don't agree with it, but she's entitled to voice it.
Does the lack of restraint, the extremism degrade "our" discourse? The world is full of people I don't agree with, the wisdom is knowing when it's worthwhile to engage with it. She's proving herself to be unreliable and unreasonable--given enough rope they hang themselves. We're watching it happen in real time.
Reasonable people know there have always been gay teachers, and gay people, and they are not, by default, pedophiles. (When I was in high school, a boy was being harassed unmercifully by other boys--the kindness of the gay teachers who reached out to him, at great personal risk to themselves, amazes me, forty years later.) Reasonable people are also concerned about the 4000+% increase in adolescent girls identifying as trans, and the automatic affirmation towards a medicalized pathway which they are receiving at schools.
The Trevor Project now: “if your son is effeminate or your daughter is a tomboy- watchful waiting instead of immediate affirmation is killing your kid, bigot.”
If activists & educators can’t see that this ideology is going to result in a serious backlash against all LGBs thanks to forced teaming with the TQ- as is already happening, they’re negligent.
I posted this on the episode thread but I’m copying it here:
“Also waiting to see how they respond. I’m glad they have help with research, but I signed up to hear J & K. There’s a big difference between what Lindsay & Pluckrose did with Cynical Theories -- showing how utterly captured some academic journals are by their own ideas -- & fooling a lady on Twitter that gives more attention to some foolish teachers seeking attention in TikTok. I think Trace put J & K in a bit of a bind, even though they didn’t know until afterwards, and I wonder if they felt like they had no choice but to react somewhat positively.
As a parent I think it’s kind of easy to take shots at LoTT, but there seems to be a clear intent coming from more people than is comfortable in public education. Parents are seen as an obstacle to be dealt with rather than as partners -- especially how some schools are hiding information about young people’s possible mental health matters when it comes to gender dysphoria - totally different than kids just being LGB bc they may end up on a path to medicalization. Parents seek out info at school board meetings for that and other matters relating to CRT -- and the Biden administration gets them likened to terrorists. I’m a pre-COVID homeschooler so this doesn’t affect me personally, but I can understand why people seek out LoTT when it seems like (some) schools are being opaque.
I was thinking about this after the LoTT episode recently when K was saying it was an opportunity for understanding why people like LoTT... which gave me flashbacks to after Trump was elected and the press was doing the “how could these people support that man” thing for months. It gives the impression that only yokels could possibly have reasons for following LoTT.”
Re: “grooming” I see people going along with redefinition of universal words like “man” and “woman” in the spirit of “language changes!” -- yet seem keen to ignore that the word “groomer,” when you pay attention to context, does not (for most people using it, as far as I can tell) mean “to make a child a potential victim” but to indoctrinate children at a young age to accept these incoherent theories while they’re in the magical thinking stage of development. It may not be about pedophilia but it’s still unethical.
The person who runs it fucked up. I think the problem is that, say, teaching third graders about pronouns - that is fucked up. Being upset about it is not a moral panic.
Both conservatives and progressives are Batshit crezy and they are spurting each other on.
The lesson is that if the attorney general of Texas wants to protect kids his staff should ascertain all stories.
Non-political lessons on pronouns aren’t the thing being discussed. Read examples of how gender identity & pronouns are shown in these lessons. If it was all about parts of speech people would applaud the schools.
Here's why "teaching third graders about pronouns" – compelled speech – is evil: "consider this editorial from the LA Times about the Wi Spa affair, in which a “transwoman” (a man, in other words) stripped naked and went into the women’s section of a Korean spa, where many women and young girls were also entirely naked. According to eyewitness accounts, his penis was semi-erect as he lounged on the edge of a hot tub (he’s since been charged with indecent exposure). A woman complained to the reception staff, calling the man a man—which, incredibly, was regarded as a serious infraction.
This editorial doesn’t make a sensible argument, albeit couched in confusing language; it simply makes no sense. That’s clear when you edit it to replace gender-based pronouns by sex-based ones, and have the guts to state the consequences of what you’re advocating for:
“The rights of transgender people to act in accordance with their gender identity is fortunately gaining acceptance in many corners—including at the U.S. Supreme Court, which just last week handed a major victory to transgender students seeking to use the schools bathrooms of their choice,”
becomes:
“The rights of trans-identified people to force everyone else to pretend they are the sex they are not are being imposed by many authorities—including the U.S. Supreme Court, which just last week enabled students of one sex to force themselves into school bathrooms supposedly reserved for students of the other.”
Similarly,
“There is no doubt that Wi Spa did the right thing in defending the right of a transgender customer to be nude in the women’s area, even though the sight of male-appearing genitalia discomfited at least one female customer, who complained at the front desk,”
becomes:
“This paper applauds Wi Spa for siding with a man who committed indecent exposure in front of naked women and girls in a space supposedly reserved for women and girls, even though the sight of a man’s genitalia discomfited at least one of the women who had just been victimised by him.”
https://www.thehelenjoyce.com/joyce-activated-issue-3/
Humans have a cognitive ability called sex pattern recognition. It’s a skill that most children acquire early, and females have been shown to have a greater accuracy at it than males.
Source: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15249109/
Any school that puts a priority on teaching children to deny what their eyes/brains tell them is truth - to align with a political view that one’s gender identity, which sounds nothing more than “the sex stereotypes I’m comfortable with” - is doing harm to children.
In the UK the NHS hospitals seem to have sex segregated floors for patients. People are accustomed to this. Yet NHS hospitals changed that to allow anyone that says they’re a woman to be placed on a woman’s floor. Sounds nice and inclusive until a woman was raped during a hospital stay by a trans identified male patient (MTF). The woman’s claims weren’t taken seriously because she was told “there was no male patient on the floor.” A rape victim is gaslit by a hospital telling her the man who raped her was a woman (in UK law rape is crime that can only be perpetuated by men, sexual abuse is a different crime, is my understanding).
Source: http://archive.today/ZFrLA
Hit send too soon.
Teaching children not to trust what their brains are telling them is true by the cognitive process of sex pattern recognition is setting up a generation of kids for a lifetime of manipulation. It’s indoctrination of kids, far more heinous than some person with a Twitter account falling for a story on furries.
During the Satanic Panic people were jailed, some for decades, for implausible, seemingly impossible crimes. Despite years of investigating, the FBI was unable to find any evidence to support notion that a vast network of Satanists were abusing children & sacrificing newborns.
QAnon is an echo of the Satanic Panic, the idea that child trafficking is going on everywhere, that children are being held captive in underground bunkers.
That children are being taught unsubstantiated theories about gender and sexuality, that public schools are hiding pupils' social transitions from their parents, supplying them with clothes from a 'transition closet', that 13 year old children can obtain puberty blockers without parental consent in California--these are things which are happening, which are documented by many legitimate journalists.
LoT re-posts videos, she's curating the stuff, not making it up. Should she have questioned this submission, not posted it? Yes, she shouldn't have.
If my autistic daughter is seduced by the Trans Church cult at school and decides she’s a boy, it’s a violation of federal law for her teacher to tell me about it. Yes, I wish this was right wing propaganda BS.
“Revealing a student’s transgender status to…PARENTS…may violate the federal educational privacy law…unless the student has given them permission to share it.” https://transequality.org/sites/default/files/ED-DCL-Fact-Sheet.pdf
Oh, sorry, I meant to say "seduced by the cult of trans at school"
As a mom of 2 high schoolers and friend to many moms, I have no doubt that there is a lot of pressure on kids to be anything but "cis." Gender ideologues have kids constantly policing gender norms. I was a lot more open-minded a few years ago, but watching what my lesbian daughter has been subjected to has been eye-opening. She has been called a genital fetishist. She has been told she must be a boy. After years of this, she is starting to believe it. Trans "girls" who were boys just a few minutes ago have pressured her to date them in a way that echoes every date-rapey tactic I had to fend off as a young woman. You can pretend this is a moral panic, but given the potential lifelong consequences of this whole project, parents have good reason to panic. And if you're old enough to remember recovered memories and the Satanic Panic, you will have no doubt about the fallibility and gullibility of psych and medical authorities.
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with panicking over men trying to gaslight young lesbians into having sex with them. It’s rape culture. No better than conservative Christians trying to coerce gays & lesbians into heterosexual relationships (“just try it!”) back in the 80s. It’s regressive & wrong. One of my oldest friends was a tomboy in middle school that later came out as lesbian, and I get angry thinking that a generation of young kids are being told that not adhering to sex stereotypes means they can’t possibly be the sex they were observed & recorded at birth. It’s progressive homophobia. As Ben Appel said in Newsweek, the message being sent is effectively: “Would you rather have a trans daughter or an effeminate gay son?"
https://www.newsweek.com/new-homophobia-opinion-1698969
Aww... show us on your genderbread person where it hurts...
I take it you don't live in a blue state and have kids in school. I wouldn't believe it myself if it weren't happening to our family.
Said by someone who I’ll guess is not a parent. When you hear about states like California taking kids away from parents based on what a school says about a kid’s gender, you start to worry about whether it could happen in your state.
https://presscalifornia.com/2022/03/17/teen-suicide-transgenderism/
Different family, this time in Washington state:
https://www.city-journal.org/transgender-identifying-adolescents-threats-to-parental-rights
She's entitled to her opinion. I don't agree with it, but she's entitled to voice it.
Does the lack of restraint, the extremism degrade "our" discourse? The world is full of people I don't agree with, the wisdom is knowing when it's worthwhile to engage with it. She's proving herself to be unreliable and unreasonable--given enough rope they hang themselves. We're watching it happen in real time.
Reasonable people know there have always been gay teachers, and gay people, and they are not, by default, pedophiles. (When I was in high school, a boy was being harassed unmercifully by other boys--the kindness of the gay teachers who reached out to him, at great personal risk to themselves, amazes me, forty years later.) Reasonable people are also concerned about the 4000+% increase in adolescent girls identifying as trans, and the automatic affirmation towards a medicalized pathway which they are receiving at schools.
The Trevor Project then: “it gets better.”
The Trevor Project now: “if your son is effeminate or your daughter is a tomboy- watchful waiting instead of immediate affirmation is killing your kid, bigot.”
If activists & educators can’t see that this ideology is going to result in a serious backlash against all LGBs thanks to forced teaming with the TQ- as is already happening, they’re negligent.
Please point me to journalists on the education beat covering these issues in a nuanced way without showing bias. I can wait.
I posted this on the episode thread but I’m copying it here:
“Also waiting to see how they respond. I’m glad they have help with research, but I signed up to hear J & K. There’s a big difference between what Lindsay & Pluckrose did with Cynical Theories -- showing how utterly captured some academic journals are by their own ideas -- & fooling a lady on Twitter that gives more attention to some foolish teachers seeking attention in TikTok. I think Trace put J & K in a bit of a bind, even though they didn’t know until afterwards, and I wonder if they felt like they had no choice but to react somewhat positively.
As a parent I think it’s kind of easy to take shots at LoTT, but there seems to be a clear intent coming from more people than is comfortable in public education. Parents are seen as an obstacle to be dealt with rather than as partners -- especially how some schools are hiding information about young people’s possible mental health matters when it comes to gender dysphoria - totally different than kids just being LGB bc they may end up on a path to medicalization. Parents seek out info at school board meetings for that and other matters relating to CRT -- and the Biden administration gets them likened to terrorists. I’m a pre-COVID homeschooler so this doesn’t affect me personally, but I can understand why people seek out LoTT when it seems like (some) schools are being opaque.
I was thinking about this after the LoTT episode recently when K was saying it was an opportunity for understanding why people like LoTT... which gave me flashbacks to after Trump was elected and the press was doing the “how could these people support that man” thing for months. It gives the impression that only yokels could possibly have reasons for following LoTT.”
Re: “grooming” I see people going along with redefinition of universal words like “man” and “woman” in the spirit of “language changes!” -- yet seem keen to ignore that the word “groomer,” when you pay attention to context, does not (for most people using it, as far as I can tell) mean “to make a child a potential victim” but to indoctrinate children at a young age to accept these incoherent theories while they’re in the magical thinking stage of development. It may not be about pedophilia but it’s still unethical.