If I had a paid subscription to some TV show and that TV show sent me a notification about a new episode for it to turn out to be some other show that had nothing to do with the show I subscribed to, it'd be very odd.
This is occasionally done in podcasting but I've only seen it done by podcast networks where one podcast on a network releases an episode or clip to advertise another podcast on said network.
I'm not gonna end my subscription or even threaten it unless it becomes a regular thing that replaces a large portion of their releases (which I highly doubt it will) but it seems reasonable for an audience to let the hosts know it's unappreciated.
It would've been less weird if they explained why they were doing this in the description instead of slapping in copy/paste ad read from the podcast they're shilling.
Hear, hear. It's been a long, hard day (week, month) and the Disney-voice and style was so cringe I couldn't get past 5 minutes. Even tried again and jumped ahead, but no.
If by very odd you mean “happens all the time” then…I guess.
I cannot think of a single podcast, video streaming service, or newsletter I subscribe to that doesn’t have guest authors, podcast promotions, or promo episodes. Both for in-network and out of network.
If I’m not interested it takes from zero to 60s of my life to skip it.
At least it's not the bleedin' Jordan Harbinger Show, who seems to advertise everywhere on how fabulous he is on other pods (or rather get the host to read it!), self praise isn't a recommendation!
Ha Jordan Harbinger ads are a secret pet peeve of mine. Apart from the fact that they jar and bore me, I can't explain what I hate about them to anyone else and no one I know listens to the same podcasts I do to get it themselves. I've heard the ads for his podcast hundreds of times and I still have no fucking idea what it's about, plus he seems anodyne as hell.
It's funny I avoided listening to that podcast for years despite hearing tons of ads on multiple other shows. Actually I avoided it precisely because of the ads. I figured if it was was a good show, why the need advertise so aggressively?
Then one day I checked it out, I'm not sure why- and I realized that I already knew who Jordan was, and had listened to a previous podcast that he had run for years! For some reason I just thought it was a different host with the same name.
I actually like the host a lot, and there are some really interesting episodes.
So despite the annoying ads, I highly recommend checking out the podcast.
idk i guess it depends on whether we are also getting a real bonus episode this week? if this is meant to be in lieu of an episode then it’s obviously annoying. if it’s just an extra thing they threw in then ya i’m not bothered
If you're walking down the street and a homeless guy says something to you, that's just "an extra" human connection in the day. But that doesn't mean I'm looking for it or want it. Especially if it's a street I pay to walk on.
Yea like it definitely is not expected but it's still an interesting conversation. The podcast is new so it seems like support for content that they like and think that we'll like, not an ad. I don't think this is a day they release so it feels like something extra.
I was thinking the same thing (in that I think this was extra and not replacement content?). I wasn't going to listen but did and ended up being charmed by the people (I am very close with my mother, who has been politically diametric to me my whole life, to the point where I consider her also a friend, so it really resonated), and think this is a great idea for a podcast in general. I just go in for snarkier more narrative things.
Similar here. My mum and I are very close and have generally similar views which diverge at key (and often emotive) points.
It is crazy to me that people would fall out over this. I am not sure what my immediate family could do to.make me disavow them but it would have to be something much more significant than voting the "wrong" way.
It's a betrayal of the parasocial relationship many listeners develop with a medium as intimate as a podcast.
This was such an amazing marketing faux pas I am honestly happy it happened. We're guaranteed not just drama for weeks but the juiciest treat a netizen could ever be blessed with: metadrama.
I struggle with podcasts and listen to basically no others because they seem to rely on the relationship they have formed with listeners. I fine them utterly insufferable and confusing, listening to people laugh and tell injokes etc. They are so unfathomable to me, so (if I am determined) I will go back to the start to try and build that ground work but this never works. Examples of this are The Red Scare, The Fifth Column, No such Thing as a Fish and a couple of more obscure podcasts that I can't remember the name of.
I find Barpod accessible because they seem to be aware of this, they always fill you in on call backs, introduce themselves, do housekeeping etc. They seem more professional and less reliant on their personalities, which isn't to say their personalities aren't a big part of the appeal. I just feel the parasociality is less apparent. Obviously my view is much less objective than I assumed.
Many pods use parasociality to wallpaper over laziness or lack of talent, and each of the three you mentioned are all very good examples of that at play. I love podcasts and podcasting as a format but it is absolutely an obscure niche medium with a lot of chaff with little wheat.
Heavyweight is very well done and very human without getting into American political BS and Conan Needs a Friend really gives a fascinating insight into megastardom and the compunction to perform, as well as being very funny. The rest of the stuff I listen to is too weird to recommend ever lol
LOL. That's a great characterization of the Podcast host. I didn't hate it because I enjoyed listening to her parents talk about how they formed their political consciousness as conservative Latinos. However, I think the premise is ridiculous. The idea that people hate people who voted for the other party is cringey and so much rarer than politically obsessed people make it out to be. 40% of people don't even vote! Among voters, most people don't read the news or care enough about politics to stop speaking to their immediate family because of their support for Trump/Biden, or their feelings about Israel vs. Palestine. So we're talking about a minuscule proportion of the population who are rabid "political animals" and hate people who disagree with them. These people aren't interesting to me and I'd rather not hear from them. I'm a political science professor, FWIW, and anyone who studies this stuff knows that practically no one cares as much about politics as us or media elites. This actually comforts me!
I hear what you're saying but this is not a miniscule problem for me. I've had friends have a falling out over politics and I have gotten into at least semi heated conversations in person or online with friends or coworkers. My parents argue over immigration issues and if I post about climate change on facebook, certain "friends" start arguments. This is where Braver Angels steps in. Perhaps I run into this more because I volunteer with organizations like Moms Demand Action (gun violence) and Citizens Climate Lobby, as well as canvass for my local county Democrats, so polarizing topics can come up. When I think of the one friend who was one half of the aforementioned fallout, I learned she does not vote all the time or pay good attention (proof: she didn't know who our two Senator candidates were two weeks before the last Nov election). Perhaps she's an anomaly, though.
I feel the same, Kelly. I've witnessed several massive fragmentations among people I love for the tiniest of political disagreements. I have lost people who demanded agreement I did not feel and could not/did not want to fake; the person who demands my compliance, in anything, is not a true friend but something else. Yet it smart, to experience AND to witness, all the same.
This is why I appreciate The Coddling of the American Mind, with its one Great Untruth that existence is a fight between bad guys and good guys, and newly released sequel The Canceling of the American mind, which adds the fourth great untruth that bad people only believe bad things. I've experienced/watched that "this person disagreed --> person is labeled bad guy no longer worth hearing --> person discarded for 'being bad'" process at work at least a dozen times now, among different groups of people, and so deeply appreciated this BARPod-endorsed taste of the braver way.
Friends should not demand your compliance. I am really curious what the topic was but understand if you don't want to say. I loved The Coddling of the American Mind, so I will have to check out his new one. Sometimes I wish life could be more like a sitcom, where people disagree and riff on each other for thinking differently about a topic, but still have a good relationship. I thought I'd spend more of my youth having political discussions with friends, but that did not happen much without people getting annoyed.
It's shown up in a few places, but trans medicine is #1 by far. To say "I have questions about the state of the medicine" is interpreted as "you are anti-trans!" This is wild to me, given how (explicitly!) my last couple years have been deeply marked by medical failures to understand certain realities and thus practice medicine in alignment with reality. Scientific and medical ignorances are not, I report with sadness, without consequence. :(
I talked about this with one of my kids earlier. I said, "If you told me you were trans, I'd support you. One way I'd support you would be by really digging into the medicine before walking with you down any path. I would want to know--I mean, really know--the risks I'd be signing you up for, if I were to put you on this or that medicine. I'd want our risk acceptance to be considered and based on accurate data, not to be totally denied an opportunity to understand THAT there are risks related to a treatment 'cause all that's sung are praises. And that's what's happening sometimes right now: Parents are accepting risks, or potential risks, they don't even know exist. And it breaks my heart what they may then uncover in their own lives, down the road, as they learn that the cases for the treatments they accepted was not as strong as they were told."
If reality isn't being represented accurately when treatment is accepted, then there's a gap between what parents are accepting and what they THINK they're accepting. Depending on what's missing in the data today, the gaps into which people may yet fall are ... potentially quite painful. As a parent, seeing other parents and their kids fall into such gaps (anywhere! not just here!) suuuuucks. Less of that, please?!
It's not that I'm transphobic that makes me want to have much better science here. It's that I understand iatrogenics (the harms caused by medical interventions) and want to make sure we're truly doing, societally, what we can to limit iatrogenics and/or be clear about potential for iatrogenics wherever possible. I want less suffering for everyone, y'know? That my desire for less suffering is treated as sign of my implicit evil? Let's just say I, too, want the sitcom-like life you describe! Sigh.
I don't have kids (yet? still possible) like you, but I like your strategy. Young people who say they're trans should also talk to detransitioners or older trans people who will give them the real scoop of what it's been like.
It's so annoying how quickly one gets called transphobic or when someone says "this isn't up for debate"- of course it is. The trans activists don't believe you or I when we say we're just concerned for these kids and young people. I actually used to be 100% on the left side of this issue- I was pro trans everything, including kids being able to do whatever they wanted medically. Even argued with someone once about it. But because I was so interested, I read and watched everything I could get my hands on related to the trans topic and my mind changed.
Same. We’ve cut off friends over this. And I still think they don’t “get” that they were cut off not because of some political disagreement (I mean, who cares?)…..but because they were assholes about it….e.g. went straight to personal attacks and name calling.
Yeah, it's when people become assholes that it's a problem. I am (or was in the recent past) young and would love to have good political conversations with people and have my views challenged but when they resort to saying things like "I'd spit on <politician> if I saw them" or act like people are idiots for being on one side of an issue, it can't happen.
2020 had record turnout for a presidential election and still only 67% of US adults voted.
Those of us who spend time on websites like this one tend to forget that we are in a real bubble. Those anecdotes like "my mother and I had a big argument over Trump" or "some girl refused to date me because of my MAGA hat" - are just that - anecdotes.
I hate to say it but I think with everything going on it’s crass and cringe to pod about 2016 hurt feelings / trump derangement syndrome unless the take was miraculously fresh
2016 is almost a decade in the past….we’re quickly approaching the day when being upset about Trump v1 is going to mark you as living in the past as much as Boomers going on about the Reagan years.
Yeah, I am totally up for having more podcasts plugged to me, because I never go looking for them. But I hate the overedited NPR documentary style. I just want rawdog conversations.
If y'all need a few days off that's fine. Shouting out another podcast is fine. It'd also be fine if this were some sort of swapcast where you went on another show and released it on your feed.
This weird insert of some other podcast with no explanation, however, is very odd and disappointing when a notification had me excited for new barpod. Is this a break from podcasting, a paid insert, or a very weirdly executed favor for a friend? Because it really looks like an undisclosed paid insert.
I'm flabbergasted by this entire comment, but the "with no explanation" piece is especially flabbergasting to me. The episode quite literally begins with Katie explaining that we live in divisive times and "We decided to share this episode with you because we think it's important." Or, y'know, a succinct, sensible explanation why hosts of a podcast on the ridiculousness of cancel culture would be interested in promoting ... the lovely antithesis to cancel culture.
I wouldn't necessarily be surprised to see this flavor of comment and a sea of likes on another podcast, perhaps. But on BARpod specifically? Where the entire point of the podcast is the absurdity of how much time, vexation, and energy people sink into complaining over often minor nonsense? As a parent of two young kids I desperately hope will get to experience anything like true freedom in the years ahead, I can't help but feel the parallels between some of my kids' arguments here; they'll spend literally minutes griping over some 3-second slight. And, there as here, I consider it incredible how they'll willingly sacrifice that time and opportunity to do something fun to do ... something like this instead.
In light of my own last paragraph, I wouldn't be inclined to post a comment like this on a single other podcast forum. But for BARPod particularly sharing this particular, particularly beautiful vision of the way out of cancel culture nonsense, because--as Katie explicitly states within the very brief BARPod intro thereto--they think it's important? I'm glad they shared that podcast because, much as I enjoy BARPod takes on cancel culture nonsense, I'd much rather just live in a world without cancel culture or the "my world, my way" sense of entitlement that appears to undergird it.
(In the intro to the newest ep, I really thought Katie was overstating the negative response to their sharing this podcast. I was like, "She can't be serious?! This is BARPod and that highly relevant shared podcast episode was beautiful?!" But, lo: overstating, she was not, so this is me showing explicit support and gratitude that she and Jesse DID choose to share this veritable ray of light in dark times.)
Personally, I've not once enjoyed it when a podcast inserted a different podcast. Maybe I'm just unlucky, I'm sure there are good podcasts out there I don't know about. But I've never had the experience where it worked out.
It's just such a weird move to shove it at people instead of giving it a Shoutout or including a representative clip inside tacked on or into a regular episode. Like someone wants me to try their orange juice so instead of asking me to try their orange juice they just replace the tea in my cup with orange juice.
Of course I'm gonna be put off when I take a sip expecting tea. It'll have to be the best damn juice in the world for me to want to take another sip rather than pouring it out and getting more tea.
Joe Rogan had to make subcategories of his own dang show because people tuning in in a mood for him asking dumb questions to famous/divisive figures kept getting mad when it was an episode of him talking about MMA stuff or to MMA people.
Idk if deefalobee deleted their comment right after posting or my app is spazzing out. As for you being flabbergasted by my saying "with no explanation":
Obviously I hadn't listened to the episode, I was referring to the show description that we get here on substack where the entire thing is just ad copy.
Nobody's mad at them for promoting another podcast, some people are annoyed by the method they chose in promoting another podcast.
I accidentally clicked post early! I've just posted the full comment and appreciate this comment. I definitely see a mechanics miss on their part here, and I hope they'll explain in-writing should they choose to share another podcast in a comparable way again; it's the stitch that saves nine, y'know?!
But it sounds from the newest ep like the point may be moot? While they suggest they won't share again, I personally do hope they'll share content like this again if they do find it; I so want my kids to have a shot at better than exists today. Even if that means BARpod then has nothing to 'cast about and we lose their BARpod magic!
Whoops, hadn't finished listening to their reaction. Seems like they're coming around to doing it in a different way if they do it again. So hopefully feedback works and they aren't just put off of trying to introduce listeners to other podcasts entirely. Much less disappointed in the reaction to the reaction
Just listened to Katie's reaction to the reaction and am disappointed. I get being upset that people thought it was an ad but the top comment (mine) left it plenty open for it to have been a favor to a friend which is what it turned out to be.
Whether it was an ad or a favor, the weird thing was inserting it into the feed. A Shoutout or a clip in a show or maybe even an email blast (though email blast might've gotten a decent portion of the same response, I wouldn't have minded that) would've gotten just as many views for it without being polarizing. I hope if she does find herself in a position to help a friend's new podcast again, she doesn't hesitate to shout it out or recommend it. I just also hope she doesn't shove it at us by putting it into a feed that it doesn't belong in.
Maybe this was just an autism test and those annoyed are those on the spectrum but a podcast's feed is for that podcast's episodes. (Mostly joking, if I've got the 'tism it's undiagnosed and mild)
I hear all this! For me, the podcast share read as BOTH. something worth sharing and a charitable favor in the pursuit of better. But the mechanics sure were a miss!
I don't think Katie or Jesse meant harm in the newest ep's intro. I think Katie was more surprised that something she offered in the kind spirit she did was met this way across comments, not a singling out of any specific one(s).
And I laughed at your 'tism comment, 'cause I do have more than a touch. Part of what I love about BARPod is how they--as you've done here--so often address it in ways that make me laugh. THAT feels like home to me!
Most This American Life episodes are behind a pay wall so I can't see examples and haven't listened in quite some time. You talking about like when they spin off a new series like Serial and then introduce it on the main podcast? Or are you saying that, just like barpod did, TAL regularly slips unrelated podcast's episodes into their own episode feed?
And nobody is saying (that I've seen) that Katie shouldn't try to help new podcasts she likes off the ground, just that the specific act of putting a different podcast's episode into your feed is a weird way of doing it that's off putting to many listeners. A Shoutout or a clip from the other show in a regular episode wouldn't have gotten nearly as negative a reaction.
I'm not able to find it or discussion on it. Search Engine podcast recently put Heavyweight in their feed, maybe that's what you're thinking of? Their subreddit didn't make any posts about it but they also recently put Otherworld into their feed which has a post wherein people are expressing their displeasure with it being put into their feed.
Came here to express my appreciation, but now I feel like that gif of Donald Glover walking into an apartment fire. Welp.
Almost skipped this one, but I'm really glad I gave it a listen. I identify with Mónica pretty hard about the whole "Yeah, Trump is terrible, but when you rail against his voters you're talking about people I love" thing.
Braver Angels' mission seems like it's encouraging the kind of discourse J & K are trying to model. Why some listeners here are absolutely apoplectic over being notified about it is completely baffling.
I agree. The show might be cheery for my tastes long-term, but I liked her and her parents and it resonated with me based on my own family dynamics. Because I love and pal out with my own all-over-the-place family and friends, I found myself thinking "I hope other people listen to this."
I also love people who voted for trump but I would struggle to find a single thing you could say about trump voters that I could justifiably disagree with or take umbrage to
I love how the only negative reaction in this thread that mentions anger or rage is a person named "Dramaposting is good for you" so then several people come out acting like everyone who's posted a negative reaction is raging out when it's mostly people just saying "this is a weird move, I don't like it."
If this wasn't an esoteric reference to Isom/Eric July/Dick Masterson drama, you should check it out.
July made millions crowd funding a comic and has been beefing with Masterson ever since he gave a harsh review of the comic. It's devolved into tons of threats of violence, a ministry suing for copyright, accusations of charity fraud, and people living stuffed turtles on great great great grandfathers' graves.
"It was my grandfather's name" just reminded me of it since July's copyright defense against the ISOM ministry is that Isom's a family name. Figure those jonesing for drama after this episode fakeout may get a kick out of it.
Unlike most commenters, I wasn't enraged to get this in my inbox, and I was willing to give it a listen. It was a bit too NPR-ish for me, but I understand the impetus for sharing it at this time of heightened divisiveness.
I found some parts of the conversation interesting. However, the narrow focus on family political differences seems quaint given what we're currently dealing with: (1) whole families, social circles, and organizations that think anyone who disagrees with them is evil; and (2) families whose differences aren't over abstract political problems but rather highly personal issues like children insisting that they were born in the wrong body and that anyone who disagrees is evil.
Agree, I have no problem with this podcast, I thought it was good. I also recognize that it is super difficult for me to “agree to disagree “ on issues like gender ideology. I might cut off any relative who tried to personally interfere with my kids over it, but can still be friendly with people who vote differently.
Same. Denying objective reality is a hard no. Mentioning it in passing to my kids on a group FaceTime (college friend and his wife) really got on my fucking nerves and still bugs me years later.
Not offended but I’d be more likely to listen if Jesse or Katie recommended it by name in a regular episode and included link in show notes. Or better yet, bring one of the hosts for an interview with Katie about what they’re doing
The randomness seems a bit strange. If there had a brief mention in a recent episode along the lines of "our friends at Braver Angels are starting a new podcast", this would have made more sense.
They've occasionally given a shoutout to other pods, but it was always in the podcast. Even when The Witch Trials of JKR came out, that's how they handled it - despite Katie having been credited as a kind of consultant. That's the path.
Alternatively, this promotion would've made more sense to me if it came with a substantive blurb explaining why J&K are sharing it in this manner. Or if they'd simply followed one of Grace's ideas! I'm not angry but I also was disappointed that it wasn't a primo bonus episode.
It's not barpod. I subscribed to barpod. You know what else is in the barpod wheelhouse? Manhattan. Seattle. But I don't care about those places. I subbed to barpod.
lol no. The second part of this story is a sanctimonious leftist sharing her “come to Jesus” (or in this case “behave like a Normal person”) moment when she stopped getting triggered by Fox News being on at her father’s house enough to talk to him before he died. I don’t need to hear self congratulatory bullshit about mean spirited people getting over themselves over realizing that not everyone votes the same way as them. This woman even broke down in tears over being there when her dad died even though she was the one who started her vendetta against him. So basically it’s congratulating terrible people who decided being less terrible unsurprisingly made their relationships with their family a little better
I subbed to barpod bc of the nuanced discussion, humor and current topics, not to hear urbanites who did terrible things to their family over something as irrelevant as who they voted for now suddenly feeling bad for it and turning it into a profitable cryfest
Jesus Christ, why are people being so incredibly aggy about this? It's the easiest thing in the world to just not listen. What has it cost you except your phone downloading the data?
as I said, I don't pay money to be spammed. It is the principle. Everyone in the world wants to spam me with advertising. I pay for services that don't do that. If they want to spam, it's fine it's their podcast, I simply will stop paying them.
I don't know what aggy means, so I'm not sure if I'm being "aggy". maybe it's a gen z thing
Whoa, did not expect these comments. If you don’t like it, you can always scroll by. I mean, services you pay for likely introduce new things, programs, services all the time. If they did this ALL the time in place of their regular content, then I get it. But it’s a one off and I think the content is fairly well aligned with their regular themes. This demonization of people based on political beliefs is partly why we are here. If anything, promoting BA could be counterproductive. If people behave decently toward one another there wouldn’t be a Barpod.
I'm not as triggered as some commenters here, though I get their point.
It reminds me though of why I no longer listen to any Wondery-related production. All the relentless cross-pimping and promotion showing up as short previews in my inbox. F you Wondery. Equally infuriating is that it no doubt worked.
Wondery is the worst. I feel like I’m at some MLM conference and constantly being upsold. I’m optimistic this was just to share a decent podcast meant to bridge divides rather than entrench then. 🤞🏼
The only Wondery podcast I listen to is "Generation Why." (Actually I'm not sure "Why" I even still listen to it, because I've never seen people phone in their jobs to this extent since I worked in a supermarket in high school.) Anywhoo I feel like the quality decline in that show is recent and wonder(y) if it has to do with influx of cash they got from being on this network. You are absolutely right, they flood you with 5-min Wondery cross-promotions for shit you have no interest in.
I love how Monica bonded with her parents over the X-Files regardless of their differences. Pretty soon all three of them with be anti-government conspiracy activists and the family Thanksgiving will be on a road trip to Area 51
I’m ambivalent about this podcast being subbed in. I listened to it and was reminded of how insufferable people in Seattle are about politics! I used to live near Seattle and that part of the country is a fucking bubble.
My most essentialist view is that when this country is finally majority Latino they will stop all the woke nonsense. Her parents aren’t having any of it!
It was good to hear their perspective and reasons why they voted for Trump. I think many people do not understand how varied the immigrant experience is and seem continually shocked when conservative candidates win a large percentage of their vote. Pro life voters are not just white Christian women living in middle America.
Monica's parents also sound a lot like some of my parents' white friends who voted for Trump. This is an issue that really matters to enough voters to swing a close election, and I think a lot of progressive discussion of "racist" Trump voters misses the fact that tons of voters support him due to pro-life commitments they've had for 30-40 years. You may not like that, but if you work in politics or journalism you should recognize it.
For better or worse the next generation vote like everyone else - based on education and zip code mostly. It's the fresh off the boat immigrants who vote conservative.
People seem very mad about this, I feel left out. Is this some awful podcast faux pas, should I be outraged?
This reaction seems very extra.
This pod is about people being outraged online over pointless things so it's very on brand.
If I had a paid subscription to some TV show and that TV show sent me a notification about a new episode for it to turn out to be some other show that had nothing to do with the show I subscribed to, it'd be very odd.
This is occasionally done in podcasting but I've only seen it done by podcast networks where one podcast on a network releases an episode or clip to advertise another podcast on said network.
I'm not gonna end my subscription or even threaten it unless it becomes a regular thing that replaces a large portion of their releases (which I highly doubt it will) but it seems reasonable for an audience to let the hosts know it's unappreciated.
It would've been less weird if they explained why they were doing this in the description instead of slapping in copy/paste ad read from the podcast they're shilling.
Hear, hear. It's been a long, hard day (week, month) and the Disney-voice and style was so cringe I couldn't get past 5 minutes. Even tried again and jumped ahead, but no.
If by very odd you mean “happens all the time” then…I guess.
I cannot think of a single podcast, video streaming service, or newsletter I subscribe to that doesn’t have guest authors, podcast promotions, or promo episodes. Both for in-network and out of network.
If I’m not interested it takes from zero to 60s of my life to skip it.
This is called advertising, and I pay to keep it off my feed.
They were paid to promote this podcast?
Oh, you sweet lamb...
What?
Yes they were paid. That’s fine.
They were not paid as they have stated on the subsequent episode of BARpod
They explained it all. It’s history now. No more comments necessary.
I assume the podcasts they like probably have more subscribers than them?
i think yer a regard
At least it's not the bleedin' Jordan Harbinger Show, who seems to advertise everywhere on how fabulous he is on other pods (or rather get the host to read it!), self praise isn't a recommendation!
Ha Jordan Harbinger ads are a secret pet peeve of mine. Apart from the fact that they jar and bore me, I can't explain what I hate about them to anyone else and no one I know listens to the same podcasts I do to get it themselves. I've heard the ads for his podcast hundreds of times and I still have no fucking idea what it's about, plus he seems anodyne as hell.
I have always referred to him as “The Harbinger of Death of Content” in my head just because I was annoyed by all the ads. I have a problem.
It's funny I avoided listening to that podcast for years despite hearing tons of ads on multiple other shows. Actually I avoided it precisely because of the ads. I figured if it was was a good show, why the need advertise so aggressively?
Then one day I checked it out, I'm not sure why- and I realized that I already knew who Jordan was, and had listened to a previous podcast that he had run for years! For some reason I just thought it was a different host with the same name.
I actually like the host a lot, and there are some really interesting episodes.
So despite the annoying ads, I highly recommend checking out the podcast.
I'd say there's a distinct lack of charity on the part of some subscribers.
I feel left out too. I felt joy when I saw the notification but looking at the angry comments makes me feel marginalized and emotionally unsafe.
How can I use my privilege to support you? Nevermind, I shouldn't have the nerve to ask you for emotional labor.
Exactly - did we lose something because of this? It just feels like we got something extra?
idk i guess it depends on whether we are also getting a real bonus episode this week? if this is meant to be in lieu of an episode then it’s obviously annoying. if it’s just an extra thing they threw in then ya i’m not bothered
Well, we got a real bonus episode, so is everyone going to chill their beans and say sorry?
If you're walking down the street and a homeless guy says something to you, that's just "an extra" human connection in the day. But that doesn't mean I'm looking for it or want it. Especially if it's a street I pay to walk on.
jesus lol
Don’t you technically pay ton walk on every street by virtue of paying taxes?
Yea like it definitely is not expected but it's still an interesting conversation. The podcast is new so it seems like support for content that they like and think that we'll like, not an ad. I don't think this is a day they release so it feels like something extra.
I was thinking the same thing (in that I think this was extra and not replacement content?). I wasn't going to listen but did and ended up being charmed by the people (I am very close with my mother, who has been politically diametric to me my whole life, to the point where I consider her also a friend, so it really resonated), and think this is a great idea for a podcast in general. I just go in for snarkier more narrative things.
Similar here. My mum and I are very close and have generally similar views which diverge at key (and often emotive) points.
It is crazy to me that people would fall out over this. I am not sure what my immediate family could do to.make me disavow them but it would have to be something much more significant than voting the "wrong" way.
The voice and tone of it are intolerable
It's a betrayal of the parasocial relationship many listeners develop with a medium as intimate as a podcast.
This was such an amazing marketing faux pas I am honestly happy it happened. We're guaranteed not just drama for weeks but the juiciest treat a netizen could ever be blessed with: metadrama.
Thank Allah the response is extra.
I struggle with podcasts and listen to basically no others because they seem to rely on the relationship they have formed with listeners. I fine them utterly insufferable and confusing, listening to people laugh and tell injokes etc. They are so unfathomable to me, so (if I am determined) I will go back to the start to try and build that ground work but this never works. Examples of this are The Red Scare, The Fifth Column, No such Thing as a Fish and a couple of more obscure podcasts that I can't remember the name of.
I find Barpod accessible because they seem to be aware of this, they always fill you in on call backs, introduce themselves, do housekeeping etc. They seem more professional and less reliant on their personalities, which isn't to say their personalities aren't a big part of the appeal. I just feel the parasociality is less apparent. Obviously my view is much less objective than I assumed.
Many pods use parasociality to wallpaper over laziness or lack of talent, and each of the three you mentioned are all very good examples of that at play. I love podcasts and podcasting as a format but it is absolutely an obscure niche medium with a lot of chaff with little wheat.
What podcast do you recommend? I would love to have more than the barpod to listen to. All the other ones I have liked are short form.
Heavyweight is very well done and very human without getting into American political BS and Conan Needs a Friend really gives a fascinating insight into megastardom and the compunction to perform, as well as being very funny. The rest of the stuff I listen to is too weird to recommend ever lol
"... the compunction to perform..."
Do you mean compulsion?
Words and Numbers
I'll just recommend "The Song of Urania". If you love history, stars, and math you'll love it.
I enjoy This is Actually Happening - long form narrated stories, no host.
Same. I loved it. I was moved by the characters in it, thought it was well done and brave.
I pay for media to avoid ads and spam basically. If you want to send me ads and spam that's fine but I won't give you money.
Yes, it's gone down like a cup of cold sick! I like Monica Guzman, so I may catch an episode or two.
Thank you for sharing this, but I pay for this pod so that i don't have to listen to NPR Voice/ therapy speak
LOL. That's a great characterization of the Podcast host. I didn't hate it because I enjoyed listening to her parents talk about how they formed their political consciousness as conservative Latinos. However, I think the premise is ridiculous. The idea that people hate people who voted for the other party is cringey and so much rarer than politically obsessed people make it out to be. 40% of people don't even vote! Among voters, most people don't read the news or care enough about politics to stop speaking to their immediate family because of their support for Trump/Biden, or their feelings about Israel vs. Palestine. So we're talking about a minuscule proportion of the population who are rabid "political animals" and hate people who disagree with them. These people aren't interesting to me and I'd rather not hear from them. I'm a political science professor, FWIW, and anyone who studies this stuff knows that practically no one cares as much about politics as us or media elites. This actually comforts me!
I hear what you're saying but this is not a miniscule problem for me. I've had friends have a falling out over politics and I have gotten into at least semi heated conversations in person or online with friends or coworkers. My parents argue over immigration issues and if I post about climate change on facebook, certain "friends" start arguments. This is where Braver Angels steps in. Perhaps I run into this more because I volunteer with organizations like Moms Demand Action (gun violence) and Citizens Climate Lobby, as well as canvass for my local county Democrats, so polarizing topics can come up. When I think of the one friend who was one half of the aforementioned fallout, I learned she does not vote all the time or pay good attention (proof: she didn't know who our two Senator candidates were two weeks before the last Nov election). Perhaps she's an anomaly, though.
I feel the same, Kelly. I've witnessed several massive fragmentations among people I love for the tiniest of political disagreements. I have lost people who demanded agreement I did not feel and could not/did not want to fake; the person who demands my compliance, in anything, is not a true friend but something else. Yet it smart, to experience AND to witness, all the same.
This is why I appreciate The Coddling of the American Mind, with its one Great Untruth that existence is a fight between bad guys and good guys, and newly released sequel The Canceling of the American mind, which adds the fourth great untruth that bad people only believe bad things. I've experienced/watched that "this person disagreed --> person is labeled bad guy no longer worth hearing --> person discarded for 'being bad'" process at work at least a dozen times now, among different groups of people, and so deeply appreciated this BARPod-endorsed taste of the braver way.
Friends should not demand your compliance. I am really curious what the topic was but understand if you don't want to say. I loved The Coddling of the American Mind, so I will have to check out his new one. Sometimes I wish life could be more like a sitcom, where people disagree and riff on each other for thinking differently about a topic, but still have a good relationship. I thought I'd spend more of my youth having political discussions with friends, but that did not happen much without people getting annoyed.
It's shown up in a few places, but trans medicine is #1 by far. To say "I have questions about the state of the medicine" is interpreted as "you are anti-trans!" This is wild to me, given how (explicitly!) my last couple years have been deeply marked by medical failures to understand certain realities and thus practice medicine in alignment with reality. Scientific and medical ignorances are not, I report with sadness, without consequence. :(
I talked about this with one of my kids earlier. I said, "If you told me you were trans, I'd support you. One way I'd support you would be by really digging into the medicine before walking with you down any path. I would want to know--I mean, really know--the risks I'd be signing you up for, if I were to put you on this or that medicine. I'd want our risk acceptance to be considered and based on accurate data, not to be totally denied an opportunity to understand THAT there are risks related to a treatment 'cause all that's sung are praises. And that's what's happening sometimes right now: Parents are accepting risks, or potential risks, they don't even know exist. And it breaks my heart what they may then uncover in their own lives, down the road, as they learn that the cases for the treatments they accepted was not as strong as they were told."
If reality isn't being represented accurately when treatment is accepted, then there's a gap between what parents are accepting and what they THINK they're accepting. Depending on what's missing in the data today, the gaps into which people may yet fall are ... potentially quite painful. As a parent, seeing other parents and their kids fall into such gaps (anywhere! not just here!) suuuuucks. Less of that, please?!
It's not that I'm transphobic that makes me want to have much better science here. It's that I understand iatrogenics (the harms caused by medical interventions) and want to make sure we're truly doing, societally, what we can to limit iatrogenics and/or be clear about potential for iatrogenics wherever possible. I want less suffering for everyone, y'know? That my desire for less suffering is treated as sign of my implicit evil? Let's just say I, too, want the sitcom-like life you describe! Sigh.
I don't have kids (yet? still possible) like you, but I like your strategy. Young people who say they're trans should also talk to detransitioners or older trans people who will give them the real scoop of what it's been like.
It's so annoying how quickly one gets called transphobic or when someone says "this isn't up for debate"- of course it is. The trans activists don't believe you or I when we say we're just concerned for these kids and young people. I actually used to be 100% on the left side of this issue- I was pro trans everything, including kids being able to do whatever they wanted medically. Even argued with someone once about it. But because I was so interested, I read and watched everything I could get my hands on related to the trans topic and my mind changed.
Same. We’ve cut off friends over this. And I still think they don’t “get” that they were cut off not because of some political disagreement (I mean, who cares?)…..but because they were assholes about it….e.g. went straight to personal attacks and name calling.
Yeah, it's when people become assholes that it's a problem. I am (or was in the recent past) young and would love to have good political conversations with people and have my views challenged but when they resort to saying things like "I'd spit on <politician> if I saw them" or act like people are idiots for being on one side of an issue, it can't happen.
Your comments are spot on.
2020 had record turnout for a presidential election and still only 67% of US adults voted.
Those of us who spend time on websites like this one tend to forget that we are in a real bubble. Those anecdotes like "my mother and I had a big argument over Trump" or "some girl refused to date me because of my MAGA hat" - are just that - anecdotes.
I hate to say it but I think with everything going on it’s crass and cringe to pod about 2016 hurt feelings / trump derangement syndrome unless the take was miraculously fresh
2016 is almost a decade in the past….we’re quickly approaching the day when being upset about Trump v1 is going to mark you as living in the past as much as Boomers going on about the Reagan years.
Move on, old timer.
Yeah, I am totally up for having more podcasts plugged to me, because I never go looking for them. But I hate the overedited NPR documentary style. I just want rawdog conversations.
If y'all need a few days off that's fine. Shouting out another podcast is fine. It'd also be fine if this were some sort of swapcast where you went on another show and released it on your feed.
This weird insert of some other podcast with no explanation, however, is very odd and disappointing when a notification had me excited for new barpod. Is this a break from podcasting, a paid insert, or a very weirdly executed favor for a friend? Because it really looks like an undisclosed paid insert.
I'm flabbergasted by this entire comment, but the "with no explanation" piece is especially flabbergasting to me. The episode quite literally begins with Katie explaining that we live in divisive times and "We decided to share this episode with you because we think it's important." Or, y'know, a succinct, sensible explanation why hosts of a podcast on the ridiculousness of cancel culture would be interested in promoting ... the lovely antithesis to cancel culture.
I wouldn't necessarily be surprised to see this flavor of comment and a sea of likes on another podcast, perhaps. But on BARpod specifically? Where the entire point of the podcast is the absurdity of how much time, vexation, and energy people sink into complaining over often minor nonsense? As a parent of two young kids I desperately hope will get to experience anything like true freedom in the years ahead, I can't help but feel the parallels between some of my kids' arguments here; they'll spend literally minutes griping over some 3-second slight. And, there as here, I consider it incredible how they'll willingly sacrifice that time and opportunity to do something fun to do ... something like this instead.
In light of my own last paragraph, I wouldn't be inclined to post a comment like this on a single other podcast forum. But for BARPod particularly sharing this particular, particularly beautiful vision of the way out of cancel culture nonsense, because--as Katie explicitly states within the very brief BARPod intro thereto--they think it's important? I'm glad they shared that podcast because, much as I enjoy BARPod takes on cancel culture nonsense, I'd much rather just live in a world without cancel culture or the "my world, my way" sense of entitlement that appears to undergird it.
(In the intro to the newest ep, I really thought Katie was overstating the negative response to their sharing this podcast. I was like, "She can't be serious?! This is BARPod and that highly relevant shared podcast episode was beautiful?!" But, lo: overstating, she was not, so this is me showing explicit support and gratitude that she and Jesse DID choose to share this veritable ray of light in dark times.)
Personally, I've not once enjoyed it when a podcast inserted a different podcast. Maybe I'm just unlucky, I'm sure there are good podcasts out there I don't know about. But I've never had the experience where it worked out.
It's just such a weird move to shove it at people instead of giving it a Shoutout or including a representative clip inside tacked on or into a regular episode. Like someone wants me to try their orange juice so instead of asking me to try their orange juice they just replace the tea in my cup with orange juice.
Of course I'm gonna be put off when I take a sip expecting tea. It'll have to be the best damn juice in the world for me to want to take another sip rather than pouring it out and getting more tea.
Joe Rogan had to make subcategories of his own dang show because people tuning in in a mood for him asking dumb questions to famous/divisive figures kept getting mad when it was an episode of him talking about MMA stuff or to MMA people.
Idk if deefalobee deleted their comment right after posting or my app is spazzing out. As for you being flabbergasted by my saying "with no explanation":
Obviously I hadn't listened to the episode, I was referring to the show description that we get here on substack where the entire thing is just ad copy.
Nobody's mad at them for promoting another podcast, some people are annoyed by the method they chose in promoting another podcast.
I accidentally clicked post early! I've just posted the full comment and appreciate this comment. I definitely see a mechanics miss on their part here, and I hope they'll explain in-writing should they choose to share another podcast in a comparable way again; it's the stitch that saves nine, y'know?!
But it sounds from the newest ep like the point may be moot? While they suggest they won't share again, I personally do hope they'll share content like this again if they do find it; I so want my kids to have a shot at better than exists today. Even if that means BARpod then has nothing to 'cast about and we lose their BARpod magic!
Whoops, hadn't finished listening to their reaction. Seems like they're coming around to doing it in a different way if they do it again. So hopefully feedback works and they aren't just put off of trying to introduce listeners to other podcasts entirely. Much less disappointed in the reaction to the reaction
You've made it further than me at this point (just about to resume!), so--I'm glad to hear this before I, y'know, hear it. Cough.
Just listened to Katie's reaction to the reaction and am disappointed. I get being upset that people thought it was an ad but the top comment (mine) left it plenty open for it to have been a favor to a friend which is what it turned out to be.
Whether it was an ad or a favor, the weird thing was inserting it into the feed. A Shoutout or a clip in a show or maybe even an email blast (though email blast might've gotten a decent portion of the same response, I wouldn't have minded that) would've gotten just as many views for it without being polarizing. I hope if she does find herself in a position to help a friend's new podcast again, she doesn't hesitate to shout it out or recommend it. I just also hope she doesn't shove it at us by putting it into a feed that it doesn't belong in.
Maybe this was just an autism test and those annoyed are those on the spectrum but a podcast's feed is for that podcast's episodes. (Mostly joking, if I've got the 'tism it's undiagnosed and mild)
I hear all this! For me, the podcast share read as BOTH. something worth sharing and a charitable favor in the pursuit of better. But the mechanics sure were a miss!
I don't think Katie or Jesse meant harm in the newest ep's intro. I think Katie was more surprised that something she offered in the kind spirit she did was met this way across comments, not a singling out of any specific one(s).
And I laughed at your 'tism comment, 'cause I do have more than a touch. Part of what I love about BARPod is how they--as you've done here--so often address it in ways that make me laugh. THAT feels like home to me!
Free advertising for pods you like Is not unusual. They do it all the time on big pods like TAL for example.
Most This American Life episodes are behind a pay wall so I can't see examples and haven't listened in quite some time. You talking about like when they spin off a new series like Serial and then introduce it on the main podcast? Or are you saying that, just like barpod did, TAL regularly slips unrelated podcast's episodes into their own episode feed?
And nobody is saying (that I've seen) that Katie shouldn't try to help new podcasts she likes off the ground, just that the specific act of putting a different podcast's episode into your feed is a weird way of doing it that's off putting to many listeners. A Shoutout or a clip from the other show in a regular episode wouldn't have gotten nearly as negative a reaction.
Yeah they just did one for Heavyweight recently for example
I'm not able to find it or discussion on it. Search Engine podcast recently put Heavyweight in their feed, maybe that's what you're thinking of? Their subreddit didn't make any posts about it but they also recently put Otherworld into their feed which has a post wherein people are expressing their displeasure with it being put into their feed.
https://www.reddit.com/r/SearchEnginePodcast/s/I3ZnWjgOYL
Came here to express my appreciation, but now I feel like that gif of Donald Glover walking into an apartment fire. Welp.
Almost skipped this one, but I'm really glad I gave it a listen. I identify with Mónica pretty hard about the whole "Yeah, Trump is terrible, but when you rail against his voters you're talking about people I love" thing.
Love that gif, and same feeling here!
Braver Angels' mission seems like it's encouraging the kind of discourse J & K are trying to model. Why some listeners here are absolutely apoplectic over being notified about it is completely baffling.
I agree. The show might be cheery for my tastes long-term, but I liked her and her parents and it resonated with me based on my own family dynamics. Because I love and pal out with my own all-over-the-place family and friends, I found myself thinking "I hope other people listen to this."
Same here - I wasn't sure about it at first, but stuck in and am glad I did.
I also love people who voted for trump but I would struggle to find a single thing you could say about trump voters that I could justifiably disagree with or take umbrage to
I don't know what's going on here, which confuses and enrages me.
I love how the only negative reaction in this thread that mentions anger or rage is a person named "Dramaposting is good for you" so then several people come out acting like everyone who's posted a negative reaction is raging out when it's mostly people just saying "this is a weird move, I don't like it."
I don't know what you're talking about, it was my grandfather's name and we've been carrying it in the family for a long time.
If this wasn't an esoteric reference to Isom/Eric July/Dick Masterson drama, you should check it out.
July made millions crowd funding a comic and has been beefing with Masterson ever since he gave a harsh review of the comic. It's devolved into tons of threats of violence, a ministry suing for copyright, accusations of charity fraud, and people living stuffed turtles on great great great grandfathers' graves.
"It was my grandfather's name" just reminded me of it since July's copyright defense against the ISOM ministry is that Isom's a family name. Figure those jonesing for drama after this episode fakeout may get a kick out of it.
Your confusion and rage is triggering my PTSD and a few traumas in me, which makes me confused and enraged too.
Your post leaves me befuddled.
And that makes me angry.
Unlike most commenters, I wasn't enraged to get this in my inbox, and I was willing to give it a listen. It was a bit too NPR-ish for me, but I understand the impetus for sharing it at this time of heightened divisiveness.
I found some parts of the conversation interesting. However, the narrow focus on family political differences seems quaint given what we're currently dealing with: (1) whole families, social circles, and organizations that think anyone who disagrees with them is evil; and (2) families whose differences aren't over abstract political problems but rather highly personal issues like children insisting that they were born in the wrong body and that anyone who disagrees is evil.
Agree, I have no problem with this podcast, I thought it was good. I also recognize that it is super difficult for me to “agree to disagree “ on issues like gender ideology. I might cut off any relative who tried to personally interfere with my kids over it, but can still be friendly with people who vote differently.
Same. Denying objective reality is a hard no. Mentioning it in passing to my kids on a group FaceTime (college friend and his wife) really got on my fucking nerves and still bugs me years later.
My mum once emotionally blackmailed me into voting against my principles. She would and could do it again too. Bitch.
Your mom went into the voting booth with you to confirm that you voted in the manner she desired?
His mom forced him to take a pic and send it to her within 5 minutes. If he didn't comply, no bottle and no nap for a week.
Alas, I am a middle aged woman.
So, no bottle and no nap for a month then?
You are very funny.
Nope, she doesn't need to she can effectively control me from a distance when needed. She uses these powers sparingly.
I love you but please don't spam me.
Not offended but I’d be more likely to listen if Jesse or Katie recommended it by name in a regular episode and included link in show notes. Or better yet, bring one of the hosts for an interview with Katie about what they’re doing
The randomness seems a bit strange. If there had a brief mention in a recent episode along the lines of "our friends at Braver Angels are starting a new podcast", this would have made more sense.
They've occasionally given a shoutout to other pods, but it was always in the podcast. Even when The Witch Trials of JKR came out, that's how they handled it - despite Katie having been credited as a kind of consultant. That's the path.
Alternatively, this promotion would've made more sense to me if it came with a substantive blurb explaining why J&K are sharing it in this manner. Or if they'd simply followed one of Grace's ideas! I'm not angry but I also was disappointed that it wasn't a primo bonus episode.
Is it possible that Substack hijacks some feeds without the hosts’ specific permission (outside of their content-producing agreement, I suppose)?
It has an intro by Katie!
don’t like unsolicited ads in my inbox, especially from something i pay for.
Wow, did anyone actually listen to this podcast? It’s beautiful, actionable, and totally within the BARpod wheelhouse. Thanks for sharing, guys.
It's not barpod. I subscribed to barpod. You know what else is in the barpod wheelhouse? Manhattan. Seattle. But I don't care about those places. I subbed to barpod.
What if you got a pod about bar and a pod about pod though, would it be an acceptable substitute for barpod in your eyes?
no
Lol
lol no. The second part of this story is a sanctimonious leftist sharing her “come to Jesus” (or in this case “behave like a Normal person”) moment when she stopped getting triggered by Fox News being on at her father’s house enough to talk to him before he died. I don’t need to hear self congratulatory bullshit about mean spirited people getting over themselves over realizing that not everyone votes the same way as them. This woman even broke down in tears over being there when her dad died even though she was the one who started her vendetta against him. So basically it’s congratulating terrible people who decided being less terrible unsurprisingly made their relationships with their family a little better
I subbed to barpod bc of the nuanced discussion, humor and current topics, not to hear urbanites who did terrible things to their family over something as irrelevant as who they voted for now suddenly feeling bad for it and turning it into a profitable cryfest
Fuck off. I didn't subscribe to be spammed. I literally don't care if it's the single best podcast ever made if it happens again I'll cancel primo
Jesus Christ, why are people being so incredibly aggy about this? It's the easiest thing in the world to just not listen. What has it cost you except your phone downloading the data?
It’s our lived experience. And we don’t feel safe 😜
as I said, I don't pay money to be spammed. It is the principle. Everyone in the world wants to spam me with advertising. I pay for services that don't do that. If they want to spam, it's fine it's their podcast, I simply will stop paying them.
I don't know what aggy means, so I'm not sure if I'm being "aggy". maybe it's a gen z thing
I think the Aggies are a college football team.
I do think “aggrocultural” should be a word.
Ooookay. So just cancel?
Whoa, did not expect these comments. If you don’t like it, you can always scroll by. I mean, services you pay for likely introduce new things, programs, services all the time. If they did this ALL the time in place of their regular content, then I get it. But it’s a one off and I think the content is fairly well aligned with their regular themes. This demonization of people based on political beliefs is partly why we are here. If anything, promoting BA could be counterproductive. If people behave decently toward one another there wouldn’t be a Barpod.
Totally accepting of all political beliefs. Not cool with unsolicited ads or spam
I'm not as triggered as some commenters here, though I get their point.
It reminds me though of why I no longer listen to any Wondery-related production. All the relentless cross-pimping and promotion showing up as short previews in my inbox. F you Wondery. Equally infuriating is that it no doubt worked.
Wondery is the worst. I feel like I’m at some MLM conference and constantly being upsold. I’m optimistic this was just to share a decent podcast meant to bridge divides rather than entrench then. 🤞🏼
The only Wondery podcast I listen to is "Generation Why." (Actually I'm not sure "Why" I even still listen to it, because I've never seen people phone in their jobs to this extent since I worked in a supermarket in high school.) Anywhoo I feel like the quality decline in that show is recent and wonder(y) if it has to do with influx of cash they got from being on this network. You are absolutely right, they flood you with 5-min Wondery cross-promotions for shit you have no interest in.
Feels like this is doing literal violence to some listeners... Thanks for sharing the podcast, I found it interesting.
I love how Monica bonded with her parents over the X-Files regardless of their differences. Pretty soon all three of them with be anti-government conspiracy activists and the family Thanksgiving will be on a road trip to Area 51
I’m ambivalent about this podcast being subbed in. I listened to it and was reminded of how insufferable people in Seattle are about politics! I used to live near Seattle and that part of the country is a fucking bubble.
And all we've heard from Katie to boot. Can't even get a haircut because people are maintaining cancellation statistics from half a decade ago?
My most essentialist view is that when this country is finally majority Latino they will stop all the woke nonsense. Her parents aren’t having any of it!
It was good to hear their perspective and reasons why they voted for Trump. I think many people do not understand how varied the immigrant experience is and seem continually shocked when conservative candidates win a large percentage of their vote. Pro life voters are not just white Christian women living in middle America.
Yes, it surprises me that people don't realize this. Latinos are the most pro-life ethnic group in the U. S., and I believe they have been for some time: https://www.graphsaboutreligion.com/p/abortion-as-a-wedge-issue.
Monica's parents also sound a lot like some of my parents' white friends who voted for Trump. This is an issue that really matters to enough voters to swing a close election, and I think a lot of progressive discussion of "racist" Trump voters misses the fact that tons of voters support him due to pro-life commitments they've had for 30-40 years. You may not like that, but if you work in politics or journalism you should recognize it.
I'm certainly looking forward to when local politics aren't ruled by white guilt.
For better or worse the next generation vote like everyone else - based on education and zip code mostly. It's the fresh off the boat immigrants who vote conservative.
I loved these people. I'm die-hard pro-choice but.