Hard agree with everything Katie and Jesse say about the sex-segregation in sports article. I have one pedantic observation in support of Katie's comments and one question:
1. Pedantry: Boys are, on average, a little bigger than girls from birth and continue to be bigger throughout childhood, even before puberty. You can see a combined chart for infants and toddlers here: https://www.chartsgraphsdiagrams.com/HealthCharts/growth-birth-36-boys+girls.html. That's why the WHO, CDC, and your pediatrician use different charts to check boys' and girls' growth at well-child appointments. (The way this played out for me, as a child recreational soccer player, was that I could play on co-ed teams in elementary school, but neither I nor the much more skilled girls on my team were as good as most of the boys. Contrary to what that nutty study discussed on the podcast implied, size and strength matter a lot for who gets possession of the ball in soccer, and even by third or fourth grade your average girl is at some disadvantage when playing against a typical boy. That's obviously only much more true once boys hit puberty.)
2. Question: Do the people who think that females aren't disadvantaged in post-pubertal co-ed sports except by cultural factors like training think that, if a woman is overpowered by a man who sexually assaults her, that's just because she didn't have the right self-defense class or, perhaps, she didn't try hard enough to fight him off? Surely they wouldn't actually stand by this claim, but isn't that the implication of these denialist arguments?
"Yeah, your daughter might just have to compete with a male kid. Which is, again, I know we're not supposed to say that, but that is what, that, it... I think what annoys me about this is, like, attempting to rob language, from us. Like, I can't even describe why I think this might potentially be unfair, cuz you're not allowed to use the term 'male' to refer to a male person."
Serena Williams, whose GOAT status is up for debate with no one, has publicly claimed that an elite male player would wipe the floor with her in five minutes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hzHBsvj6C0
In no way does this lessen her own greatness. Andy Murray, the player she said would defeat her easily, is quick to point out in an interview that she shouldn't be left out conversations regarding American elite players in Wimbledon. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOH-dCrV_XA
They obviously have a great deal of respect for each other and acknowledging that biology puts them in different leagues, literally, does not and should not lessen that respect.
I don't even need to check the author of the atlantic article to know they have been tweeting about believing science for two straight years. Of all the bad takes on twitter, the women/sports one is the most bewildering to me, because it is so provably false in day-to-day life. Like how could anyone who has ever carried groceries for their mom or opened a jar for their girlfriend earnestly believe there aren't biological differences between the sexes?
I once watched a women's NCAA D1 team practice against their (male) "practice team" because my friend was on the practice team. The practice team dominated them so completely it was kind of baffling to watch, I felt bad for the women. My friend was a mediocre athlete who couldn't even have played at a lower level school. That women's team played for the national championship that year.
Anyone involved in athletics at any level knows the reality here.
The US women's soccer team getting beat by HS boys in a scrimmage should be far more widely known than it is - especially since Megan Rapinoe was on that same fucking team!
Every year, my church does co-ed sports for the young single adults, and every year they blame the girls for having to forfeit games because not enough girls wanted to play.
They guys get competitive.
The guys try and show off to the women.
The guys get too aggressive.
The guys mansplain every time how a basketball works.
Every year a girl will get a compound fracture or black eye because some dude goes too hard playing softball. It shouldn’t be a shocker that girls prefer to play sports together.
Do you ever wonder if the people who write these articles about how there are no sex difference between the strength of men and women genuinely believe this because the men they interact with are generally pretty self selected for soy-boy? If the vast majority of men they interact with were the general physique of Jesse and they live in a total bubble it's not difficult for me to see how they might believe this garbage.
Katie being secretly wholesome and not knowing what an Eiffel Tower is makes me laugh so hard. Now even when she does stuff like mention her secret college lesbian fight club I just think “I bet she brought homemade jam for everyone.”
I think sometimes we women take for granted that we have one of the insane physical advantages of them all: the ability to grow new humans inside our bodies and then release them into the world. You consider that we have that, plus the fact that we have longer on average lifespans, and you realize that it balances out pretty well for us.
Jesse keeps making self-deprecating jokes but he actually seems to be reasonably athletic? He played sports in middle school, high school, and still plays casually to this day. That’s more than most people can say.
Did anyone else listen to the latest episode of Gender A Wider Lens? The way Lior talked about gender and sex was fascinating.
The Atlantic article was...hahahaha.
Btw. Riverdale Country is crazy expensive. I thought it was misleading to say it is in the Bronx. I mean. It is. But it may as well be UES. Like these are wealthy kids, which means the parents have time for this nonsense
That Norwegian soccer skills study proves nothing about actual competition that requires speed and strength and agility.
I could take 5 WNBA benchwarmers and put them up against 5 NBA All Stars in free throw shooting. The WNBA players would likely win. So are they in any way equal?
On the topic of the Norwegian study, I feel the need to nitpick and point out that “soccer” (football, thank you) is a LOT more gendered in Europe than it apparently is in the US. Football is THE manly sport. Until very recently, women’s football was seen as a joke, even in feminist scandinavia where other women’s sports (eg handball) are celebrated. Boys are generally encouraged to kick balls around from a very young age (similarly, I think, to the american tradition of father-and-son baseball) and playing casual football during recess is practically mandatory for boys. The final conclusion is nonsense, but that culture is what the article is alluding to.
Hard agree with everything Katie and Jesse say about the sex-segregation in sports article. I have one pedantic observation in support of Katie's comments and one question:
1. Pedantry: Boys are, on average, a little bigger than girls from birth and continue to be bigger throughout childhood, even before puberty. You can see a combined chart for infants and toddlers here: https://www.chartsgraphsdiagrams.com/HealthCharts/growth-birth-36-boys+girls.html. That's why the WHO, CDC, and your pediatrician use different charts to check boys' and girls' growth at well-child appointments. (The way this played out for me, as a child recreational soccer player, was that I could play on co-ed teams in elementary school, but neither I nor the much more skilled girls on my team were as good as most of the boys. Contrary to what that nutty study discussed on the podcast implied, size and strength matter a lot for who gets possession of the ball in soccer, and even by third or fourth grade your average girl is at some disadvantage when playing against a typical boy. That's obviously only much more true once boys hit puberty.)
2. Question: Do the people who think that females aren't disadvantaged in post-pubertal co-ed sports except by cultural factors like training think that, if a woman is overpowered by a man who sexually assaults her, that's just because she didn't have the right self-defense class or, perhaps, she didn't try hard enough to fight him off? Surely they wouldn't actually stand by this claim, but isn't that the implication of these denialist arguments?
"Yeah, your daughter might just have to compete with a male kid. Which is, again, I know we're not supposed to say that, but that is what, that, it... I think what annoys me about this is, like, attempting to rob language, from us. Like, I can't even describe why I think this might potentially be unfair, cuz you're not allowed to use the term 'male' to refer to a male person."
It's finally dawning on Jesse! XD
Serena Williams, whose GOAT status is up for debate with no one, has publicly claimed that an elite male player would wipe the floor with her in five minutes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hzHBsvj6C0
In no way does this lessen her own greatness. Andy Murray, the player she said would defeat her easily, is quick to point out in an interview that she shouldn't be left out conversations regarding American elite players in Wimbledon. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOH-dCrV_XA
They obviously have a great deal of respect for each other and acknowledging that biology puts them in different leagues, literally, does not and should not lessen that respect.
I don't even need to check the author of the atlantic article to know they have been tweeting about believing science for two straight years. Of all the bad takes on twitter, the women/sports one is the most bewildering to me, because it is so provably false in day-to-day life. Like how could anyone who has ever carried groceries for their mom or opened a jar for their girlfriend earnestly believe there aren't biological differences between the sexes?
I once watched a women's NCAA D1 team practice against their (male) "practice team" because my friend was on the practice team. The practice team dominated them so completely it was kind of baffling to watch, I felt bad for the women. My friend was a mediocre athlete who couldn't even have played at a lower level school. That women's team played for the national championship that year.
Anyone involved in athletics at any level knows the reality here.
The US women's soccer team getting beat by HS boys in a scrimmage should be far more widely known than it is - especially since Megan Rapinoe was on that same fucking team!
Jesse, just say that you said Keffals was in Iceland because you were trying to misdirect any potential stalkers who were listening to the episode!
Every year, my church does co-ed sports for the young single adults, and every year they blame the girls for having to forfeit games because not enough girls wanted to play.
They guys get competitive.
The guys try and show off to the women.
The guys get too aggressive.
The guys mansplain every time how a basketball works.
Every year a girl will get a compound fracture or black eye because some dude goes too hard playing softball. It shouldn’t be a shocker that girls prefer to play sports together.
Do you ever wonder if the people who write these articles about how there are no sex difference between the strength of men and women genuinely believe this because the men they interact with are generally pretty self selected for soy-boy? If the vast majority of men they interact with were the general physique of Jesse and they live in a total bubble it's not difficult for me to see how they might believe this garbage.
Looking forward to the soon-to-be-announced show in Reykjavík (north of Boston).
Katie being secretly wholesome and not knowing what an Eiffel Tower is makes me laugh so hard. Now even when she does stuff like mention her secret college lesbian fight club I just think “I bet she brought homemade jam for everyone.”
I think sometimes we women take for granted that we have one of the insane physical advantages of them all: the ability to grow new humans inside our bodies and then release them into the world. You consider that we have that, plus the fact that we have longer on average lifespans, and you realize that it balances out pretty well for us.
Jesse keeps making self-deprecating jokes but he actually seems to be reasonably athletic? He played sports in middle school, high school, and still plays casually to this day. That’s more than most people can say.
I think every episode from now on should include a further clarification of the name of the sexual position.
Did anyone else listen to the latest episode of Gender A Wider Lens? The way Lior talked about gender and sex was fascinating.
The Atlantic article was...hahahaha.
Btw. Riverdale Country is crazy expensive. I thought it was misleading to say it is in the Bronx. I mean. It is. But it may as well be UES. Like these are wealthy kids, which means the parents have time for this nonsense
ETA: the kid was in middle school not high school
That Norwegian soccer skills study proves nothing about actual competition that requires speed and strength and agility.
I could take 5 WNBA benchwarmers and put them up against 5 NBA All Stars in free throw shooting. The WNBA players would likely win. So are they in any way equal?
On the topic of the Norwegian study, I feel the need to nitpick and point out that “soccer” (football, thank you) is a LOT more gendered in Europe than it apparently is in the US. Football is THE manly sport. Until very recently, women’s football was seen as a joke, even in feminist scandinavia where other women’s sports (eg handball) are celebrated. Boys are generally encouraged to kick balls around from a very young age (similarly, I think, to the american tradition of father-and-son baseball) and playing casual football during recess is practically mandatory for boys. The final conclusion is nonsense, but that culture is what the article is alluding to.