A broke person works hard, saves money for bike, because there is no way they can afford a car. This bike is their transportation. With it, they can get to and from work and grocery store.
Someone sees the bike, and decides they are entitled to it. Sure, they could earn money, save it, and buy their own. But that's too much work. Far easier to free ride off someone else's hard work.
Now the bike owner has no good way to get to work anymore. It's either go back to a combination of El trains and buses that take double the time of riding the bike, or go into debt to buy a replacement. Time matters a lot when you work 12 hour shifts.
What the thief did was incredibly cruel. It caused this person to have to be chronically exhausted, because now their commute time doubled. When you work 12 hour shifts in a hospital, the clock is always running and you have to get enough sleep so you don't make any mistakes at work. Because when you make a mistake, someone can die.
Nothing about this theft was petty.
One of the main problems with prison, for the prisoner, is that they are completely surrounded by people like themselves. And it sucks to be around people like them.
I'm wondering what you think of the following arguments:
1) Countries in Europe that have more "humane" prisons also seem to have a lot less violent crime. Do you think that humane prisons create less violent societies, or that more violent societies make it more difficult to facilitate "humane" prisons? Or do you think they're unrelated/the relation is not causative?
2) What do you mean by "The US is particularly bad"--it's true that the prisons in the US have due process/safety issues, but there are probably only a handful of countries in the world where I would rather be imprisoned. I think that exaggerating the problems we have can lead to apathy and dismissal. Just as easily as someone can compare a US prison to a Norwegian prison, someone else can compare a US prison to a prison in Indonesia. I don't know how helpful either comparison is to the discussion of how to improve US prisons.
3) There have been a few studies that show a very high rate of ASPD in US prisons, much higher than the general population. I'm not sure I agree that I want someone to go to prison for stealing my bike, but I do think that we don't fully appreciate the extent to which prison separates people with both a severe personality disorder (many of which have little to no evidence of being susceptible to treatment) AND a tendency towards violence from the rest of the population. When you say that you think that "very few" people should be in prison, do you think everyone else is rehabilitatable? Or do you think that having more crime in our communities would be worth disinvesting from the current system?
4) There is an argument that when a population sees that there isn't a just response to crime and violence, they establish extra-judicial systems of punishment, which can be arbitrary and usually lack any sort of due process. Maybe if we implement less severe state-sanctioned punishment for violent crime especially, it will increase the number of people seeking violent extra-judicial recompense.
The word “abolition” strikes me as not compatible with still having a little bit of the abolished thing for just the most extreme cases. I don’t think John Brown would have been okay with a little bit of slavery just when it’s really necessary.
To expand on Brooks, had he not been granted a low cash bail of $1,000, six people would not have been killed, more than 60 others would not have been injured, and hundreds more wouldn’t still be wrestling with the mental trauma inflicted upon them by what they witnessed.
He was already jailed for having run over the mother of his children, using the same car he would later use to ram through the parade. He also had a history of bail jumping.
Brooks’s most heinous crime is rare, but serial victimizers like him are not. Serial victimizers being released from, or never sent to prison is probably a big driver of the sudden spike in murder rates. If you lock someone up for a few years on a gun charge, that’s a few years that they won’t be able to actually murder someone with a gun.
I agree that prisons should be more orderly. It’s absurd that it’s so easy to smuggle in contraband, and so easy to victimize other prisoners. Federal prisons and military prisons have far fewer such problems, perhaps states could learn from them.
I’ve been captivated by the trial of Darrell Brooks. He’s a great example of why we need prisons and police.
What do abolitionists propose we do with obstinate, unrepentant mass murderers that insist that they aren’t even subject to your laws?
I honestly think most white Wokies at this point think crime itself is a white racist construct 😂
My daughters and nieces are obsessed with this trial It's insane.
Here's cruel to me:
A broke person works hard, saves money for bike, because there is no way they can afford a car. This bike is their transportation. With it, they can get to and from work and grocery store.
Someone sees the bike, and decides they are entitled to it. Sure, they could earn money, save it, and buy their own. But that's too much work. Far easier to free ride off someone else's hard work.
Now the bike owner has no good way to get to work anymore. It's either go back to a combination of El trains and buses that take double the time of riding the bike, or go into debt to buy a replacement. Time matters a lot when you work 12 hour shifts.
What the thief did was incredibly cruel. It caused this person to have to be chronically exhausted, because now their commute time doubled. When you work 12 hour shifts in a hospital, the clock is always running and you have to get enough sleep so you don't make any mistakes at work. Because when you make a mistake, someone can die.
Nothing about this theft was petty.
One of the main problems with prison, for the prisoner, is that they are completely surrounded by people like themselves. And it sucks to be around people like them.
Good post. Add to that that in Kansas where I live we have a free bike program where you can just pick them up and ride
They're all over town literally thousands of them. And meth heads still steal personal bicycles.
I'm wondering what you think of the following arguments:
1) Countries in Europe that have more "humane" prisons also seem to have a lot less violent crime. Do you think that humane prisons create less violent societies, or that more violent societies make it more difficult to facilitate "humane" prisons? Or do you think they're unrelated/the relation is not causative?
2) What do you mean by "The US is particularly bad"--it's true that the prisons in the US have due process/safety issues, but there are probably only a handful of countries in the world where I would rather be imprisoned. I think that exaggerating the problems we have can lead to apathy and dismissal. Just as easily as someone can compare a US prison to a Norwegian prison, someone else can compare a US prison to a prison in Indonesia. I don't know how helpful either comparison is to the discussion of how to improve US prisons.
3) There have been a few studies that show a very high rate of ASPD in US prisons, much higher than the general population. I'm not sure I agree that I want someone to go to prison for stealing my bike, but I do think that we don't fully appreciate the extent to which prison separates people with both a severe personality disorder (many of which have little to no evidence of being susceptible to treatment) AND a tendency towards violence from the rest of the population. When you say that you think that "very few" people should be in prison, do you think everyone else is rehabilitatable? Or do you think that having more crime in our communities would be worth disinvesting from the current system?
4) There is an argument that when a population sees that there isn't a just response to crime and violence, they establish extra-judicial systems of punishment, which can be arbitrary and usually lack any sort of due process. Maybe if we implement less severe state-sanctioned punishment for violent crime especially, it will increase the number of people seeking violent extra-judicial recompense.
The word “abolition” strikes me as not compatible with still having a little bit of the abolished thing for just the most extreme cases. I don’t think John Brown would have been okay with a little bit of slavery just when it’s really necessary.
To expand on Brooks, had he not been granted a low cash bail of $1,000, six people would not have been killed, more than 60 others would not have been injured, and hundreds more wouldn’t still be wrestling with the mental trauma inflicted upon them by what they witnessed.
He was already jailed for having run over the mother of his children, using the same car he would later use to ram through the parade. He also had a history of bail jumping.
Brooks’s most heinous crime is rare, but serial victimizers like him are not. Serial victimizers being released from, or never sent to prison is probably a big driver of the sudden spike in murder rates. If you lock someone up for a few years on a gun charge, that’s a few years that they won’t be able to actually murder someone with a gun.
I agree that prisons should be more orderly. It’s absurd that it’s so easy to smuggle in contraband, and so easy to victimize other prisoners. Federal prisons and military prisons have far fewer such problems, perhaps states could learn from them.
What do you think makes them cruel?
I'm clearly smarter than you, so for your sake I hope not.