Every time Katie or anyone else on here talks about being abandoned by friends it hurts my goddamn heart. Katie is a nice person who pretends to be mean and is constantly being treated like shit by mean people who pretend to be nice.
Anyone who tries to point to 'capitalism' as the cause of a problem or 'overthrowing capitalism' as a possible solution to any problem needs to point to the specific historical, non-capitalist society and time period they are envisioning in which this problem was better. This tic that the self-described 'true leftists' have is just so fucking stupid and lazy that it makes it nearly impossible for me to take anything else they say seriously. In this specific case she's claiming that capitalism 'makes people feel powerless'. What non-capitalist system that has ever existed gives more power and agency over their lives to ordinary people than Capitalism? She's also making a vague claim that things in our society are terrible while speaking from a country that has some of the best living standards of any society that has existed in human history.
This was absolutely great (and heartbreaking at times).
I really wonder what percentage of very vocal woke people actually believe what they say and what percentage is just utterly terrified of losing all of their friends.
I loved this. The abolition ideology is absurd, in my opinion, but I very much cherish civil debate. On a personal note: Morrigan’s sobriety matters a huge amount here. I’m sober 12 years myself. Our national discourse feels very ‘alcoholic’ right now. Twelve-step recovery helps you grow up and become less narcissistic and self-involved. You begin to mature and sort your life out and help others and genuinely connect to reality. Victimhood is not supported in AA; taking responsibility very much is. Social justice warriors are all about victimhood and immaturity and shutting down dissenting opinions. The two cannot coexist very well. So, good for Morrigan on getting sober and seeing through the lies and woke bullshit!
If someone steals my stuff, I want them punished. It’s not just an object they are stealing, but all the hours of work I did to earn the money to buy it. Why are they entitled to that?
If someone stole my bike, for example, I would want them in jail/prison for a year. Does that seem excessive??
Hmm. Maybe I’m in my minority here. Clementine seems (and is) quite freshly out of woke ideology. Personally, I’m not sure she contributed anything new or enlightening to the conversation within the BAR Pod universe. Her way of explaining “the nexus” was delivered in that familiar zealot, lefty manner. I suppose that’s to be expected since she was entrenched in it for so long. Ask her back when she becomes totally disenchanted with educating lefties about how to behave. She has not reach the sardonic cynic phase of “deprograming” that makes for more palatable, humorous discussion.
She (and FdB) are of course fundamentally wrong about what police do and how we work. Of course I can't help feeling some degree of judgement about some arrestees, but the base process and reasoning is completely different.
If I stop someone and find them to be driving drunk, I'm not trying to judge their worth as humans or at the bounds of personhood. Society has determined, via its duly elected legislature, that DWI is a behavior the presents an unacceptable danger to the public. I am enforcing that agreed upon prohibition. In order to do so I abide by strict rules of evidence. I don't render the verdict, I don't even prosecute the case. I simply bring the person before the court.
The mobs are principally concerned with judging and un-personing targets, based upon unilateral pronouncements that are capricious and arbitrary. They are not "acting like police". Not even slightly.
Jesse, just make an Instagram account so you can like Katie’s photos of Moose. You don’t even have to post. This is literally all she wants in the world.
You know it struck me: The way Morrigan describes The Nexus sounds very much like a religious cult. Like Scientology or Mormonism, say. You can’t say anything different from the script. Facts and data are verboten. Lying is normalized. It has nothing to do with reality or truth; it’s all about protecting the group ideology. Anyone who steps out of bounds gets destroyed. The good news is: These morons will destroy themselves. It’s already happening.
I'm really moved right now by how similar her story is to the stories I have heard from friends who grew up in 90s-00s church youth culture and began deconstructing in their late 20s and 30s.
Listening to the ep now. I’m 20 mins in, and what is coming to mind is the phrase, ‘Home is the place where, when you have to go there, They have to take you in. ' For all that Queer culture loves to talk about and celebrate ‘Found Family’, it doesn’t seem like it adheres to that basic concept of what family/community/home is.
I liked this episode, though reading many of these comments before listening made me think I was going to hate it. I don't think Clementine introduced many new ideas to BARpod fans but her perspective was refreshing all the same... maybe because she's quite earnest rather than sarky like K&J. She has a generous spirit and seems to be reaching a different demographic than the usual heterodox voices. And I didn't mind her voice at all and appreciate all that she has been through in her life.
I find it fascinating how drenched American social justice culture is in the lingo of psychotherapy - which inherently is very individualistic, right? It makes even the most reasonable activist sound entitled, as if we have to end racism not because it’s idiotic but because it gives some activist panic attacks?
I'm pretty normie (standard hipster Brooklyn friends) and I started becoming alarmed when I first got on Facebook in the late-aught years, when immigration was a hot topic. I found that if you simply pointed out that there were Mexican and Central American immigrants who were for tightened immigration laws, or that this was a universal in all countries, you were called a full-throttle racist. And I found that odd. I was not anti-immigration at all, more disturbed at the careless accusations of racism, and I believe I already was losing followers for simply touching on that issue and defending others for having reasonable alternate beliefs. Then when Trayvon Martin and Mike Brown happened, it really took off. To me, the queer-sphere cancel culture feels much more recent, but of course I was not part of it so don't know what the issues were 2009 - 2012.
In any case, I have now lost friends defending falsely accused men in the age of MeToo even though I could not be more enthusiastic about MeToo and even consider myself a FemiNazi. What to me is most difficult is that I have been dropped by friends who have known me for years or a lifetime and who witnessed me being ultra-feminist over and over, and who because of one or two instances of defending someone falsely accused, decided I am On the Other Side and dumped me. It's the complete dismissal of every bit of evidence of who you are and ever were. Suddenly it's as if your past never existed, as if your friends just met you yesterday, when you stated that one thing.
I am fearful that recently I have defended JK Rowling one too many times on Twitter. I have two 30+ year friends who recently are not returning my messages. It's all very devastating, and it's just stunning that this is becoming a normal part of being, I think, a moral person.
I'm grateful for podcasts like this and the work these guys do, and for everyone else sticking their necks out, and am glad for this community.
You guys (haha) make an attempt to locate the source of cancel culture. Queer is part of it, but you exclude gay males.
What does that leave but cis women?
Sarah Haider talks about "toxic femininity.". So is it possible that cancel culture is just mean girl culture taken to an extreme? (Serious, not rhetorical, question)
Every time Katie or anyone else on here talks about being abandoned by friends it hurts my goddamn heart. Katie is a nice person who pretends to be mean and is constantly being treated like shit by mean people who pretend to be nice.
Anyone who tries to point to 'capitalism' as the cause of a problem or 'overthrowing capitalism' as a possible solution to any problem needs to point to the specific historical, non-capitalist society and time period they are envisioning in which this problem was better. This tic that the self-described 'true leftists' have is just so fucking stupid and lazy that it makes it nearly impossible for me to take anything else they say seriously. In this specific case she's claiming that capitalism 'makes people feel powerless'. What non-capitalist system that has ever existed gives more power and agency over their lives to ordinary people than Capitalism? She's also making a vague claim that things in our society are terrible while speaking from a country that has some of the best living standards of any society that has existed in human history.
This was absolutely great (and heartbreaking at times).
I really wonder what percentage of very vocal woke people actually believe what they say and what percentage is just utterly terrified of losing all of their friends.
I loved this. The abolition ideology is absurd, in my opinion, but I very much cherish civil debate. On a personal note: Morrigan’s sobriety matters a huge amount here. I’m sober 12 years myself. Our national discourse feels very ‘alcoholic’ right now. Twelve-step recovery helps you grow up and become less narcissistic and self-involved. You begin to mature and sort your life out and help others and genuinely connect to reality. Victimhood is not supported in AA; taking responsibility very much is. Social justice warriors are all about victimhood and immaturity and shutting down dissenting opinions. The two cannot coexist very well. So, good for Morrigan on getting sober and seeing through the lies and woke bullshit!
Michael Mohr
https://michaelmohr.substack.com/
Can I come out here as pro- carceral?
If someone steals my stuff, I want them punished. It’s not just an object they are stealing, but all the hours of work I did to earn the money to buy it. Why are they entitled to that?
If someone stole my bike, for example, I would want them in jail/prison for a year. Does that seem excessive??
Hmm. Maybe I’m in my minority here. Clementine seems (and is) quite freshly out of woke ideology. Personally, I’m not sure she contributed anything new or enlightening to the conversation within the BAR Pod universe. Her way of explaining “the nexus” was delivered in that familiar zealot, lefty manner. I suppose that’s to be expected since she was entrenched in it for so long. Ask her back when she becomes totally disenchanted with educating lefties about how to behave. She has not reach the sardonic cynic phase of “deprograming” that makes for more palatable, humorous discussion.
She (and FdB) are of course fundamentally wrong about what police do and how we work. Of course I can't help feeling some degree of judgement about some arrestees, but the base process and reasoning is completely different.
If I stop someone and find them to be driving drunk, I'm not trying to judge their worth as humans or at the bounds of personhood. Society has determined, via its duly elected legislature, that DWI is a behavior the presents an unacceptable danger to the public. I am enforcing that agreed upon prohibition. In order to do so I abide by strict rules of evidence. I don't render the verdict, I don't even prosecute the case. I simply bring the person before the court.
The mobs are principally concerned with judging and un-personing targets, based upon unilateral pronouncements that are capricious and arbitrary. They are not "acting like police". Not even slightly.
Jesse, just make an Instagram account so you can like Katie’s photos of Moose. You don’t even have to post. This is literally all she wants in the world.
You know it struck me: The way Morrigan describes The Nexus sounds very much like a religious cult. Like Scientology or Mormonism, say. You can’t say anything different from the script. Facts and data are verboten. Lying is normalized. It has nothing to do with reality or truth; it’s all about protecting the group ideology. Anyone who steps out of bounds gets destroyed. The good news is: These morons will destroy themselves. It’s already happening.
I'm really moved right now by how similar her story is to the stories I have heard from friends who grew up in 90s-00s church youth culture and began deconstructing in their late 20s and 30s.
Listening to the ep now. I’m 20 mins in, and what is coming to mind is the phrase, ‘Home is the place where, when you have to go there, They have to take you in. ' For all that Queer culture loves to talk about and celebrate ‘Found Family’, it doesn’t seem like it adheres to that basic concept of what family/community/home is.
I liked this episode, though reading many of these comments before listening made me think I was going to hate it. I don't think Clementine introduced many new ideas to BARpod fans but her perspective was refreshing all the same... maybe because she's quite earnest rather than sarky like K&J. She has a generous spirit and seems to be reaching a different demographic than the usual heterodox voices. And I didn't mind her voice at all and appreciate all that she has been through in her life.
Just gotta say, Katie is a great interviewer. If she did a whole interview style podcast, I would listen in a heartbeat.
I find it fascinating how drenched American social justice culture is in the lingo of psychotherapy - which inherently is very individualistic, right? It makes even the most reasonable activist sound entitled, as if we have to end racism not because it’s idiotic but because it gives some activist panic attacks?
I'm pretty normie (standard hipster Brooklyn friends) and I started becoming alarmed when I first got on Facebook in the late-aught years, when immigration was a hot topic. I found that if you simply pointed out that there were Mexican and Central American immigrants who were for tightened immigration laws, or that this was a universal in all countries, you were called a full-throttle racist. And I found that odd. I was not anti-immigration at all, more disturbed at the careless accusations of racism, and I believe I already was losing followers for simply touching on that issue and defending others for having reasonable alternate beliefs. Then when Trayvon Martin and Mike Brown happened, it really took off. To me, the queer-sphere cancel culture feels much more recent, but of course I was not part of it so don't know what the issues were 2009 - 2012.
In any case, I have now lost friends defending falsely accused men in the age of MeToo even though I could not be more enthusiastic about MeToo and even consider myself a FemiNazi. What to me is most difficult is that I have been dropped by friends who have known me for years or a lifetime and who witnessed me being ultra-feminist over and over, and who because of one or two instances of defending someone falsely accused, decided I am On the Other Side and dumped me. It's the complete dismissal of every bit of evidence of who you are and ever were. Suddenly it's as if your past never existed, as if your friends just met you yesterday, when you stated that one thing.
I am fearful that recently I have defended JK Rowling one too many times on Twitter. I have two 30+ year friends who recently are not returning my messages. It's all very devastating, and it's just stunning that this is becoming a normal part of being, I think, a moral person.
I'm grateful for podcasts like this and the work these guys do, and for everyone else sticking their necks out, and am glad for this community.
You guys (haha) make an attempt to locate the source of cancel culture. Queer is part of it, but you exclude gay males.
What does that leave but cis women?
Sarah Haider talks about "toxic femininity.". So is it possible that cancel culture is just mean girl culture taken to an extreme? (Serious, not rhetorical, question)