Alright I’m sorry but Helen Lewis is just spectacularly charming. I could listen to her do commentary on a 100-meter foot race between blind 80-year-olds and enjoy it. That ability she has to just toss out perfectly formulated, terse, comedic phrases right off the top of her head is enviable—makes sense that she went to Oxford, as I could name a dozen Oxonians down through the generations who cultivated that skill there as well.
Anyway, if I bang on any longer like this it’ll start to sound a bit overeager and weird—that, or it already does, but oh well; I mean it, so I’m leaving it as written—so yeah, great episode guys. Genuinely made me cackle out loud while walking in the park by myself (where it’s about 6°F, so luckily I’m the only person around). You three have a lovely rapport, so I say more of these, please!
Yeah. When we had my DEI two month training, the two trainers were explicitly anti capitalist. Which was HILARIOUS because the black woman definitely had her own consulting firm. And the two trainers were getting paid a hell pf a lot more than those of us attending the training. Plus we still had to work.
Also. In regards to white women's tears leading to black men getting lynched. First. When was the last time this happened? Second. I remember reading about, what was it, kidney gate? The white woman who donated her kidney and her friends made fun of her and it became a whole mess. And there was an article in the student paper at the University of Chicago, and based on the guy's name, I would say he may have been black but more likely South Asian, and he was talking about the white woman getting upset about getting mocked was reminiscent of white women crying and black men getting lynched. And he meant it. But like. What white woman has gotten an Asian woman killed? And again. When was the last time a white woman has caused a black man to die in this wss?
ETA: I do not think there has ever been real change in people when they hsve been hostilely confronted. That is not how homophobia massively decreased. And if we look at substance use treatment. For years the method was - you are an alcoholic and your lool how you have ironed things. But it turned out not to be effective. I am betting the same is true of anti racism training.
Finally. Feigned innocence? Why the assumption that people already know and are pretending?
John Mcwhorter, Coleman Hughes, Claire Lehmann, Jon Kay(and the staff at Quillette generally) would be other examples of 'IDW-adjacent' figures who didn't go off the deep-end.
Are we really calling Ibram Kendi "thoughtful"? Helen Lewis commented just seconds earlier that he thought White people were alien because of their blue eyes. What if this were Marjorie Taylor Greene commenting on the weird, alien quality of brown eyes?
It is really hard to think of how a male Race to Dinner would go. On one hand, I imagine everyone with as much interest as the 5th safety meeting on scissor usage. On the other, I see a room full of trolls that will say things to get a rise out of the presenters.
Plus, white men don't need to pay thousands to be told how racist and misogynistic they inherently are. We have Twitter, Reddit, YouTube, Podcasts, Documentaries, News, Institutional Lectures, DEI trainings, and a section at trendy book stores.
"Your question was gaslighting, Helen. Because cluelessness, feigned ignorance..." So, being clueless is, per se, "feigned ignorance"? Mind reading, much?! Ugh, so gross.
I am deeply embarrassed by how excited, then disappointed I was by the revelation that Jesse went to the same high school as Chase Strangio... but tragically, not at the same time.
Also, how is Chase over forty? This seems simply impossible.
Pet peeve: on the left we always want to blame everything (White Women discourse, etc) on agitators from outside the movement: men’s rights activists, Nazis, Reply Guys, etc. This makes us feel good because we have a nice out group to pin everything on as Helen does in this episode (it’s not POC that are attacking white women, it was actually white men the whole time! Saira Rao is just a figurehead!) And yet: every leftist space (dating back to the 1970s at least) ends up devolving into the same disfunction of purity spirals, cancellations etc. Maybe it’s worth acknowledging that sometimes The Call Is Coming From Inside the House?
Alright I’m sorry but Helen Lewis is just spectacularly charming. I could listen to her do commentary on a 100-meter foot race between blind 80-year-olds and enjoy it. That ability she has to just toss out perfectly formulated, terse, comedic phrases right off the top of her head is enviable—makes sense that she went to Oxford, as I could name a dozen Oxonians down through the generations who cultivated that skill there as well.
Anyway, if I bang on any longer like this it’ll start to sound a bit overeager and weird—that, or it already does, but oh well; I mean it, so I’m leaving it as written—so yeah, great episode guys. Genuinely made me cackle out loud while walking in the park by myself (where it’s about 6°F, so luckily I’m the only person around). You three have a lovely rapport, so I say more of these, please!
Yeah. When we had my DEI two month training, the two trainers were explicitly anti capitalist. Which was HILARIOUS because the black woman definitely had her own consulting firm. And the two trainers were getting paid a hell pf a lot more than those of us attending the training. Plus we still had to work.
Also. In regards to white women's tears leading to black men getting lynched. First. When was the last time this happened? Second. I remember reading about, what was it, kidney gate? The white woman who donated her kidney and her friends made fun of her and it became a whole mess. And there was an article in the student paper at the University of Chicago, and based on the guy's name, I would say he may have been black but more likely South Asian, and he was talking about the white woman getting upset about getting mocked was reminiscent of white women crying and black men getting lynched. And he meant it. But like. What white woman has gotten an Asian woman killed? And again. When was the last time a white woman has caused a black man to die in this wss?
ETA: I do not think there has ever been real change in people when they hsve been hostilely confronted. That is not how homophobia massively decreased. And if we look at substance use treatment. For years the method was - you are an alcoholic and your lool how you have ironed things. But it turned out not to be effective. I am betting the same is true of anti racism training.
Finally. Feigned innocence? Why the assumption that people already know and are pretending?
John Mcwhorter, Coleman Hughes, Claire Lehmann, Jon Kay(and the staff at Quillette generally) would be other examples of 'IDW-adjacent' figures who didn't go off the deep-end.
Under Article 13 of the Irish constitution I’m legally obliged to note Helen Joyce is Irish, sorry
Are we really calling Ibram Kendi "thoughtful"? Helen Lewis commented just seconds earlier that he thought White people were alien because of their blue eyes. What if this were Marjorie Taylor Greene commenting on the weird, alien quality of brown eyes?
It is really hard to think of how a male Race to Dinner would go. On one hand, I imagine everyone with as much interest as the 5th safety meeting on scissor usage. On the other, I see a room full of trolls that will say things to get a rise out of the presenters.
Plus, white men don't need to pay thousands to be told how racist and misogynistic they inherently are. We have Twitter, Reddit, YouTube, Podcasts, Documentaries, News, Institutional Lectures, DEI trainings, and a section at trendy book stores.
I love listening to Helen Keller. Great episode
This is the best Christmas gift. Helen is incredibly clever and hilarious. 10/10
Hilarious! I really enjoyed playing along at home. Thankfully I scored lower than K&J.
Helen is an excellent foil for our dynamic duo.
Embarrassingly, I yelled out “MICHAEL HOBBES!!!!” at the appropriate moment during this episode
Then I went to Christmas Eve dinner and listened to my otherwise respectable cousin tell me that her favorite podcast is Maintenance Phase.
What a fun episode! Helen needs to be a recurring guest on the show. This show restores my sanity.
Ok I haven’t listened yet but Saira Rao’s tweets are now protected. I need information.
"Your question was gaslighting, Helen. Because cluelessness, feigned ignorance..." So, being clueless is, per se, "feigned ignorance"? Mind reading, much?! Ugh, so gross.
I am deeply embarrassed by how excited, then disappointed I was by the revelation that Jesse went to the same high school as Chase Strangio... but tragically, not at the same time.
Also, how is Chase over forty? This seems simply impossible.
I knew James Lindsey hadn’t used Russia’s greatest Love Machine as a display name because its actually funny and not nearly culture war-y enough.
Pet peeve: on the left we always want to blame everything (White Women discourse, etc) on agitators from outside the movement: men’s rights activists, Nazis, Reply Guys, etc. This makes us feel good because we have a nice out group to pin everything on as Helen does in this episode (it’s not POC that are attacking white women, it was actually white men the whole time! Saira Rao is just a figurehead!) And yet: every leftist space (dating back to the 1970s at least) ends up devolving into the same disfunction of purity spirals, cancellations etc. Maybe it’s worth acknowledging that sometimes The Call Is Coming From Inside the House?